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2bbs 2021 bronco build

Snacktime said:
Probably need to do an AWD Module relearn to clear the module errors(modules store errors and the awd module sucks balls to reset). You need to learn this shit, FDRS and Forscan are required if you need to do any major repairs. Everything with a circuit board comes un-programmed now.
Click to expand...


I really do appreciate your input, but my 5 year old is better with a tablet then me and I dont even own a computer because I cant use them/ get frusterated.

Telling me I need to learn this shit is great, and I probably do. However I dont know the first step to learning it or even if I need a computer.... what kind, ect. And if I get all of that will I be able to figure it out.

We looked at every module on the fancy computer last night and none of them had any errors at all that were current. The only one that was old was for the steering on the date I had it overheat durring a wheeling trip last summer. Is there any reason to believe that fdrs would show something different with the awd module?
 
budget76 said:
does the speedo read high or low

if it reads lower than stock, could the computer be expecting 70mph at 3000rpm but reading 62mph at 3000rpm and thinking its clutch slippage?

spitballing, I've got no idea. But you seem to be getting close. There's got to be something angry in speed reading sensors. Can you use the fancy tool to adjust the speedo for tire size / calibrate so its accurate again?
Click to expand...

This is basically what my thoughts were

2big bronco said:
Speedo is reading a little low... I also thought about trying to use forscan to input the tire diameter that should force it all to read correctly for my final drive ratio. Inputting 40inch tires should get everything mathematically correct even though I have 37s.

What I dont understand is that the speed sensors are before the reduction in the hubs and "IF" the tone rings are correct then how or why the computer would know anything is wrong.
Click to expand...

But like 2bb says, nothing between the engine and speed sensor has changed, so it would be odd for it to know what the actual speed is. Although with the way stuff is these days, I wouldn't be surprised if it references GPS speed.


Also, wouldn't you need to input smaller tires since the gearing is now lower?
 
What scanner did your cousin bring over? Was it Ford specific?

I think you can buy a Bluetooth dongle, and an app on your phone, and run the Ford diagnostics, maybe someone will post up the combination of things you need so I don’t have to research it for you.

Edit, I don't think this is 100% gonna solve your problem, but you won't regret owning these. I have the bluetooth dongle, you can borrow it if you bring my kid's water bottle that we left at your place so my wife stops bitching about it.
Bluetooth Dongle: OBDLink: OBDLink MX+
Forscan Lite for Android: https://forscan.org/download_lite_ng.php
 
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Jeffh555 said:
What scanner did your cousin bring over? Was it Ford specific?

I think you can buy a Bluetooth dongle, and an app on your phone, and run the Ford diagnostics, maybe someone will post up the combination of things you need so I don’t have to research it for you.
Click to expand...
I have a Ford dongle he can try. Not sure if it's the right one, but yeah. Don't know what kind of software he'd need to drive it tho.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
This is basically what my thoughts were



But like 2bb says, nothing between the engine and speed sensor has changed, so it would be odd for it to know what the actual speed is. Although with the way stuff is these days, I wouldn't be surprised if it references GPS speed.


Also, wouldn't you need to input smaller tires since the gearing is now lower?
Click to expand...

I just ran everything through a gear/rpm/mph calculator to see what it would take to get everything back to "stock" factory 33" tires with 4.7 gears is roughly the same rpm at 60mph as 4.7 gears × 1.2 reduction and 40" tires
 
2big bronco said:
I just ran everything through a gear/rpm/mph calculator to see what it would take to get everything back to "stock" factory 33" tires with 4.7 gears is roughly the same rpm at 60mph as 4.7 gears × 1.2 reduction and 40" tires
Click to expand...
It seems odd that a tire size mis-match would freak it out that much. Wouldn't there be tons of people who put larger tires on and didn't re-gear all having the same issue?
 
what a PITA. Agreed its weird that the portals are having any effect. But damn does it sound like speed sensor or some sort

does it at 50MPH-ish no matter what gear? same if you leave it in 2nd and high RPM's as lug it up there in 6th? assuming yes


this reminds me why I don't want to own new shit
 
2big bronco said:
I just ran everything through a gear/rpm/mph calculator to see what it would take to get everything back to "stock" factory 33" tires with 4.7 gears is roughly the same rpm at 60mph as 4.7 gears × 1.2 reduction and 40" tires
Click to expand...

Makes sense

Now I'm just confused on if the portals make it more like it has 40s or more like it has 33s :laughing:

My thought was putting the portals on would be more like putting on smaller tires, but you're saying the speedo is reading low? Like it says 60 and GPS says you're doing 70?

That would be more like putting on bigger tires..... :confused::confused::laughing:
 
YotaAtieToo said:
This is basically what my thoughts were



But like 2bb says, nothing between the engine and speed sensor has changed, so it would be odd for it to know what the actual speed is. Although with the way stuff is these days, I wouldn't be surprised if it references GPS speed.
Click to expand...
As I said before, if the longitudinal acceleration sensor thinks it accelerated to 60mph but the speed sensors say 40mph, it could be a problem.
 
Maybe the issue is throttle position and load at a given speed, Like the engine is not working as hard as it should be at given RPMs and speeds because of the extra gearing and interprets that as clutch slippage.
 
Snacktime said:
Probably need to do an AWD Module relearn to clear the module errors(modules store errors and the awd module sucks balls to reset). You need to learn this shit, FDRS and Forscan are required if you need to do any major repairs. Everything with a circuit board comes un-programmed now.
Click to expand...
I don't own a Ford newer than 2000, so I'm a bit in the dark on this stuff, but trying to help 2BB out, if it's more complicated than a relay, you have to talk to him like he's a boomer that's never seen a computer.

Does he need FDRS AND Forscan, or would just Forscan work?

Snacktime said:
This is the cheapest connector that works with FDRS and it's awful but works...
VXDIAG VCX Nano Compatible for Ford/Mazda 2 in 1 Diagnostic and Programming Tool Amazon.com
Click to expand...
This is not available, but this one is Amazon.com

Both Forscan and FDRS say that you should use Windows 10. FDRS says "Windows 10 Professional (64 Bit only)"


FDRS license is not cheap, $50 for 2 days, $150 for a month, but I'm not sure what else he needs, just the FDRS license and the above linked adapter? My experiance is that OEM diagnostic tools are designed to be used by dealers, and very dificult to get to work for DIYers.

This is the cheapest computer I could find that meets these specs ($200)
www.newegg.com

14 inch Laptop FHD IPS Display Notebook, KX-6640MA 64-bit Quad-Core , 8GB RAM, 256GB NVMe SSD, WiFi, HDMI, Windows 10 , Sliver - Newegg.com

Buy 14 inch Laptop FHD IPS Display Notebook, KX-6640MA 64-bit Quad-Core , 8GB RAM, 256GB NVMe SSD, WiFi, HDMI, Windows 10 , Sliver with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
www.newegg.com www.newegg.com

Forscan seems easier and geared toward the DIY person, standard license is free. Above computer also meets these specs.

Forscan recommended USB adapter is $60 on Amazon: OBDLink® EX - OBD2 Adapter For ELM327 & FORScan

TLDR, if it was me, I'd order these, then get your 5yo to turn it on for you, or get SJ to bring his laptop over, which surely meets the requirements, or tow it up to my house.
www.newegg.com

14 inch Laptop FHD IPS Display Notebook, KX-6640MA 64-bit Quad-Core , 8GB RAM, 256GB NVMe SSD, WiFi, HDMI, Windows 10 , Sliver - Newegg.com

Buy 14 inch Laptop FHD IPS Display Notebook, KX-6640MA 64-bit Quad-Core , 8GB RAM, 256GB NVMe SSD, WiFi, HDMI, Windows 10 , Sliver with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
www.newegg.com www.newegg.com

OBDLink® EX - OBD2 Adapter For ELM327 & FORScan

When looking for a top-of-the-line OBD II adapter that works with FORScan, look no further. At OBDLink® we have the right scan tools. Purchase here!
www.obdlink.com www.obdlink.com
 
DMG said:
As I said before, if the longitudinal acceleration sensor thinks it accelerated to 60mph but the speed sensors say 40mph, it could be a problem.
Click to expand...

Ah, missed that. Makes perfect sense.

Wonder why this wouldn't be an issue in an auto trans bronco? Or maybe it is and 2bb is the first guy installing them in his garage, and the fancy shops already know how to cure it.

2big bronco have you spoke with 74weld yet?
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Ah, missed that. Makes perfect sense.

Wonder why this wouldn't be an issue in an auto trans bronco? Or maybe it is and 2bb is the first guy installing them in his garage, and the fancy shops already know how to cure it.

2big bronco have you spoke with 74weld yet?
Click to expand...
It could be something else but this is definitely a thing

IMG_1521.png
 
One thought, we don't know that it's portal related at all, do we? You installed the steering rack at the same time as the portals, right?
 
Jeffh555 said:
One thought, we don't know that it's portal related at all, do we? You installed the steering rack at the same time as the portals, right?
Click to expand...
Correct but people have been playing with the steering racks for 3 years now and the consensus is that if something is incompatible you just wont have power assist steering. Its also a hoss3.0 factory rack internals and electronics wich should be 100% compatible with any model and have had no previous proble.s that I can find.
 
So its still a little random and im unable to tell what exactly triggers the problem but it has done it basically under any condition, rpm, or speed, over 30mph
 
If you reset it then accelerate in a straight line straight to 50mph, will it go in to limp mode right away, or does it need some time, mileage, and/or turning to figure out that it's not happy?
 
Jeffh555 said:
If you reset it then accelerate in a straight line straight to 50mph, will it go in to limp mode right away, or does it need some time, mileage, and/or turning to figure out that it's not happy?
Click to expand...
Needs some time... the time and mileage seem to vary. I have not tried to duplicate it in any controlled manor (same starting point, speed, and route)
 
Jeffh555 said:
I don't own a Ford newer than 2000, so I'm a bit in the dark on this stuff, but trying to help 2BB out, if it's more complicated than a relay, you have to talk to him like he's a boomer that's never seen a computer.

Does he need FDRS AND Forscan, or would just Forscan work?


This is not available, but this one is Amazon.com

Both Forscan and FDRS say that you should use Windows 10. FDRS says "Windows 10 Professional (64 Bit only)"


FDRS license is not cheap, $50 for 2 days, $150 for a month, but I'm not sure what else he needs, just the FDRS license and the above linked adapter? My experiance is that OEM diagnostic tools are designed to be used by dealers, and very dificult to get to work for DIYers.

This is the cheapest computer I could find that meets these specs ($200)
www.newegg.com

14 inch Laptop FHD IPS Display Notebook, KX-6640MA 64-bit Quad-Core , 8GB RAM, 256GB NVMe SSD, WiFi, HDMI, Windows 10 , Sliver - Newegg.com

Buy 14 inch Laptop FHD IPS Display Notebook, KX-6640MA 64-bit Quad-Core , 8GB RAM, 256GB NVMe SSD, WiFi, HDMI, Windows 10 , Sliver with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
www.newegg.com www.newegg.com

Forscan seems easier and geared toward the DIY person, standard license is free. Above computer also meets these specs.

Forscan recommended USB adapter is $60 on Amazon: OBDLink® EX - OBD2 Adapter For ELM327 & FORScan

TLDR, if it was me, I'd order these, then get your 5yo to turn it on for you, or get SJ to bring his laptop over, which surely meets the requirements, or tow it up to my house.
www.newegg.com

14 inch Laptop FHD IPS Display Notebook, KX-6640MA 64-bit Quad-Core , 8GB RAM, 256GB NVMe SSD, WiFi, HDMI, Windows 10 , Sliver - Newegg.com

Buy 14 inch Laptop FHD IPS Display Notebook, KX-6640MA 64-bit Quad-Core , 8GB RAM, 256GB NVMe SSD, WiFi, HDMI, Windows 10 , Sliver with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
www.newegg.com www.newegg.com

OBDLink® EX - OBD2 Adapter For ELM327 & FORScan

When looking for a top-of-the-line OBD II adapter that works with FORScan, look no further. At OBDLink® we have the right scan tools. Purchase here!
www.obdlink.com www.obdlink.com
Click to expand...

Snacktime knows a lot more about this than I do, but FDRS will let you do anything a dealer can do. You need it to program parts like new steering racks. Presumably Weld74 programs the racks so the can sell them as bolt ons, but if 2BB had bought a factory Hoss 3.0 rack, he would have needed FDRS (as well as a bunch of fuckery with Forscan) to program the rack for it to work in his Bronco.

Forscan can do a lot, but there are some things you need FDRS for. I believe paying for FDRS gives you access to trouble shooting like Skinny mentioned, but I could be way off base.
 
So 74weld says they have had similar issues on jeeps and recaliberating the gearing in the computer fixed it.

He also said he knows for sure the bronco doesnt use only the wheel speed sensor to calculate wheel speed and that it uses several data points. He sounded fairly conffident that if I change the gearing in forscan it should work. He also said thay he knows for sure it will accept 5.38s but not sure of lower. He said if 5.38 doesnt get it to an acceptable range change tire size to get the desired final ratio.
 
2big bronco said:
So 74weld says they have had similar issues on jeeps and recaliberating the gearing in the computer fixed it.

He also said he knows for sure the bronco doesnt use only the wheel speed sensor to calculate wheel speed and that it uses several data points. He sounded fairly conffident that if I change the gearing in forscan it should work. He also said thay he knows for sure it will accept 5.38s but not sure of lower. He said if 5.38 doesnt get it to an acceptable range change tire size to get the desired final ratio.
Click to expand...

B6G confirms
1705445053818.png
 
Still don't get it... Front WSS is at hub, rear is at axle, they're different, they need to be the same, 74Weld used different numbers of teeth to fix this problem, that makes sense.

What I don't understand is, how does changing the tire size or gearing in Procal change the front to rear ratio? Unless you're able to program it for different sizes front and rear.
 
Jeffh555 said:
Still don't get it... Front WSS is at hub, rear is at axle, they're different, they need to be the same, 74Weld used different numbers of teeth to fix this problem, that makes sense.

What I don't understand is, how does changing the tire size or gearing in Procal change the front to rear ratio? Unless you're able to program it for different sizes front and rear.
Click to expand...

The computer needs to be told that the axles are going to spin slower due to the 1.22 portal gear reduction. Right now the computer thinks the clutch is slipping the signal is to low for the rpm.
 
Jeffh555 said:
Still don't get it... Front WSS is at hub, rear is at axle, they're different, they need to be the same, 74Weld used different numbers of teeth to fix this problem, that makes sense.

What I don't understand is, how does changing the tire size or gearing in Procal change the front to rear ratio? Unless you're able to program it for different sizes front and rear.
Click to expand...

Rear doesnt just use the axle... it uses other data points to calculate what the wheel speed should be... but I dont fully under stand either
 
Jeffh555 said:
Still don't get it... Front WSS is at hub, rear is at axle, they're different, they need to be the same, 74Weld used different numbers of teeth to fix this problem, that makes sense.

What I don't understand is, how does changing the tire size or gearing in Procal change the front to rear ratio? Unless you're able to program it for different sizes front and rear.
Click to expand...

2bb said the front is off the cv side, not the wheel hub. So the same rpm as the rear.

I don't understand how it knows there was a gearing change either, but it clearly does :laughing:
 
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