22re Timing issues

[Mr Stubs]

I am getting close to the end of my knowledge and looking for new ideas. I am unable to get my newly rebuilt 22re running correctly.

Problem:

After rebuilding my 85 22re engine I have been unable to set the timing correctly. The timing mark flutters, as in surges 5-10*.

Engine was ran correctly to break in the cam and then driven a total of about 30 minutes before entering the shop. It was low on power, pulling 55mph on the Hwy was about all it could do.

After entering the shop it began showing code. #5 (O2 sensor) and 11 (TPS).

T1 jumper makes no audible engine change

Corrective Measures taken:

New Denso O2 sensor = no more code 5.

Carb cleaner in engine bay, no audible vacuum leaks

Reset valves

Confirmed correct timing chain position

Replaced TPS unit and bench set. Also manually checked on truck to see if it was working correctly.

Moved the air idle screw all over the place

Removed and checked distributor for shaft play. It has equal amount to a used one in the spare parts box

Added a intake plume ground (I believe that is the ground source for the ecm)

Next on list to do:

Trying to find a ecu to plug in in place of mine as a check procedure.

Swapping out and trying the old spare parts distributor

Ask for Irate help.

Engine timing summary:

Engine of course is hard to start. Once running the idle must be kept high (2k) in order to move the distributor. The lowest I can go is 8*. Once I set it lower than that the timing will move lower (about 2” past TDC to the right). It will do the opposite at 12* and climb to the left around the same amount.

 

[Clb]

I feel yer pain...
I went thru this this year, after swapping in an re in the 83.
These guy's came thru and we got it bar'd.
I will go back in my pm's and see what light I can shed on this.
The biggest thing I got was ohm testing is bunk.
The tps breakout should be done as per the link below to 4crawlers site SORRY been a minute (mistake. .Rodger Browns) .

 

[dirtybird]

Did you check to make sure the pulley didn't slip on the rubber? Had this happen on one a few years ago and had a hell of a time getting it right.

 

[Mr Stubs]

Did you check to make sure the pulley didn't slip on the rubber? Had this happen on one a few years ago and had a hell of a time getting it right.

No I have not. How would I check this?

 

[Deleted Member]

Couple questions...

When you shorted the plug with the jumper, the check engine light flashes, yeah?

What cam are you running? Stock?

I am also leaning towards the TPS not being adjusted correctly. I always used 4crawlers method, here: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TPS/index.shtml

 

[Mr Stubs]

Couple questions...

When you shorted the plug with the jumper, the check engine light flashes, yeah?

What cam are you running? Stock?

I am also leaning towards the TPS not being adjusted correctly. I always used 4crawlers method, here: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TPS/index.shtml

Thanks guys for the link. I will reevaluate once again but use this method. I was using my factory OEM book instructions but I may have had a oversight.

Not a stock cam.

 

[Chkn]

No I have not. How would I check this?

Verify the crank key way and the timing mark are still in phase with each other. Possibly by just removing the crank bolt, may have to remove the harmonic balancer.

 

[Provience]

well shit, does this mean the RPT that you just built a couple years back killed itself?

 

[Squamch]

Did you check to make sure the pulley didn't slip on the rubber? Had this happen on one a few years ago and had a hell of a time getting it right.

This was my first thought too. I have had a couple that had to be timed by ear because of it.

 

[Mr Stubs]

well shit, does this mean the RPT that you just built a couple years back killed itself?

Nope, that motor is still boosting strong.

This motor is in Ol’ Blue, my OG 85. First 4x4 I ever owned and now used for mostly back up and farm duty.... with a bored out stroker motor of course.

 

[Deleted Member]

Thanks guys for the link. I will reevaluate once again but use this method. I was using my factory OEM book instructions but I may have had a oversight.

Not a stock cam.

Engnbldr? Crane? Comp?

Whats the valve lash for the new cam?

I'm thinking no on the crank pulley/ timing mark being off if the timing light mark is jumping around that much, but stranger things have happened. Can rule it out pretty quick by pulling #1 plug and rolling marks to match and checking height on the piston. Old skool wooden dowel will work. I am guessing you verified all the vac lines too?

Still thinking TPS is whackadoodle.

 

[Mr Stubs]

Engnbldr? Crane? Comp?

Whats the valve lash for the new cam?

I'm thinking no on the crank pulley/ timing mark being off if the timing light mark is jumping around that much, but stranger things have happened. Can rule it out pretty quick by pulling #1 plug and rolling marks to match and checking height on the piston. Old skool wooden dowel will work. I am guessing you verified all the vac lines too?

Still thinking TPS is whackadoodle.

LC Engineering Pro Torquer cam

SS valves set at .006 and .010

Vac lines were paint marked before engine tear down but I have not re-verified since assembly.

 

[Mr Stubs]

So I have a line on a used ECU (coming from a friend of a friend). Hopefully everything works out and I will be able to plug in another for a quick and sloppy check.

 

[Deleted Member]

So I have a line on a used ECU (coming from a friend of a friend). Hopefully everything works out and I will be able to plug in another for a quick and sloppy check.

That's why I was wondering if the check engine light came on when you jumpered the test plug. I have only had ONE bad ecu in all my time (30 years messing with toy engines) and it was really obvious.

Beyond tps only other thing I can think with your symptoms is a funked up injector, but that would be an obvious miss... keep us posted man.

 

[Mr Stubs]

That's why I was wondering if the check engine light came on when you jumpered the test plug. I have only had ONE bad ecu in all my time (30 years messing with toy engines) and it was really obvious.

Beyond tps only other thing I can think with your symptoms is a funked up injector, but that would be an obvious miss... keep us posted man.

New injectors were installed during the build.

Thanks for the help so far.

 

[Clb]

Checked my pm's, Nuthin in my stash that helps, mine would not alter the idle with the check connector shorted.
Check the hall switch gizmo in the dist.?
Sorry about the misleading info in my first post bud.

 

[Deleted Member]

I went back and re-read what ya wrote up top... I know you can't be trying to time the thing at 2k rpm. What is the idle set at? 750 or so?

 

[Mr Stubs]

I went back and re-read what ya wrote up top... I know you can't be trying to time the thing at 2k rpm. What is the idle set at? 750 or so?

750 is what I’m shooting for. It’s just difficult to get from the cab to the distributor before the truck dies. Hence the initial high idle set.

Problem is now I have lost that “ base setting” on the screw. I’m used to motorcycle carbs with like “all in then 1.5 turns out to start” stuff. I haven’t been able to find that in the service manual yet.

 

[Deleted Member]

750 is what I’m shooting for. It’s just difficult to get from the cab to the distributor before the truck dies. Hence the initial high idle set.

Problem is now I have lost that “ base setting” on the screw. I’m used to motorcycle carbs with like “all in then 1.5 turns out to start” stuff. I haven’t been able to find that in the service manual yet.

I know this is pretty elementary... but your dizzy is set in the exact same way as the one in this vid, right?

 

[Mr Stubs]

I know this is pretty elementary... but your dizzy is set in the exact same way as the one in this vid, right?

It better be, cuz if it’s not I’m going to feel like a fucking idiot!😜

 

[NOODLES]

I had the same issue with a 85 efi. I left the bottom tps screw loose, and bumped the tps until the idle went down a little. With the tps not set, you can't adjust timing at all. And it is very vague on how to check that particular year. This worked for me a couple years ago.

 

[Volcom]

Stock cam gear? I had an adjustable LC Engineering cam gear slip after I flopped my 4Runner, lost oil pressure, tensioner stopped tensioning, and a couple of the valves smacked the pistons. They hit hard enough to slip the cam gear. I didn't notice it and after replacing valves and getting everything back up and running, I couldn't get it timed. Had multiple try and most insisted that I had done the timing chain wrong and was a tooth off.

 

[Squamch]

Well?????

 

[Mr Stubs]

Found another ecu that I’m going to try.

So I set the dizzy at 5*.

Need to bench set the TPS again.

No clue where to set the air/idle screw now for a base setting.

Will swap in other used Dizzy if there isn’t a change.

If there isn’t a change after that then I will go back to the original dizzy and swap in the new to me, ecu.

After that? I have no clue.

Should have time this weekend to get back at this.

 

[Pitbullcruiser]

I just went through a similar situation. Truck would start, run but then die. I thought it was the ECU not turning the fuel pump on. I swapped in 4 different ECU's with no change. I went back and checked all of the wiring in the system. It turned out to be a bad connection from the kill switch to the EFI power. Fixed the connection, put the original ECU back in and it fired right up. I also recently talked to an old Japanese Toyota master tech and he told me he has never seen a Toyota ECU fail under normal operating conditions. Just my 2 cents.

 

[osv]

if you are re-using the same ecu/tb/distributor/etc that you had before, and the old motor didn't have a timing issue, it could indicate that the problem lies elsewhere.

in terms of the wiring problem mentioned above, i'd call fixing the efi injector wire splice corrosion mandatory, even with a 22re that seems to be running well:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/a-22re-injector-problem-i-had.311436/

the failure symptoms are similar, aka, the engine will barely idle and then die, and finally not start at all... in the case of my 1986 4runner, the corrosion was so bad that i had to replace at least three ft. of the ground wire going back to the ecu, and even that wasn't enough, the only reason that i stopped there was because i got tired of stripping it back.

trying to troubleshoot that problem with an ohmmeter isn't reliable, because it only takes a strand or two of wire to show a complete connection on the meter, but a strand or two can't carry enough current to reliably fire the injector... the only way to tell is to cut the harness open.

 

[Aisin]

if you are re-using the same ecu/tb/distributor/etc that you had before, and the old motor didn't have a timing issue, it could indicate that the problem lies elsewhere.

in terms of the wiring problem mentioned above, i'd call fixing the efi injector wire splice corrosion mandatory, even with a 22re that seems to be running well:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/a-22re-injector-problem-i-had.311436/

the failure symptoms are similar, aka, the engine will barely idle and then die, and finally not start at all... in the case of my 1986 4runner, the corrosion was so bad that i had to replace at least three ft. of the ground wire going back to the ecu, and even that wasn't enough, the only reason that i stopped there was because i got tired of stripping it back.

trying to troubleshoot that problem with an ohmmeter isn't reliable, because it only takes a strand or two of wire to show a complete connection on the meter, but a strand or two can't carry enough current to reliably fire the injector... the only way to tell is to cut the harness open.

My good friend Mike was a Navy avionics guy. His answer was always a bad ground. He was correct usually 85% of the time. Sadly he is no longer alive. He was a solid fucking dude.

 

[Mr Stubs]

So here is the update.

I bench set the TPS again.

Proceeded to put everything back together again.

Started the engine, and much to my surprise it started easy. The timing mark now only fluctuated maybe a 1/8”.

So I warmed it up and took her out for a tune in run. Adjusted the air idle screw and set the timing. Drove her hard with 4k shifts and gravel road locker drifts.

So I guess the fix was:

Ground wire to the intake: I have my doubts

Bench setting the TPS again: Maybe

Dropping in the dizzy at 5*TDC and not 0*TDC. I think this coupled with a incorrectly set TPS was the cause of my issues.