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1994 Ford Bronco 5.0L XL Hesitates when Starting/Hesitates when Accelerating.

Since both the EGR valve AND the EGR valve position sensor can fail, I went ahead and ordered said EGR valve position sensor too.


Replace them both and be done with it. 👍:beer:
Finished replacing said parts.....Nothing.

No change; still runs like shit. :mad3: 😕


The only thing I can think of is;
it idled fine BEFORE I replace the cap and rotor.
 
This is agonizing to watch. RUN THE CODES. You are wasting time and money throwing parts at this thing.

Diagnostic Port location and how-to:


OBD1 Diagnostic tool:


Confirm your firing order. Non - high output 5.0s are 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8

Bought the code reader.

Got these codes:
211 - Profile ignition pickup (PIP) circuit fault
212 - Loss of ignition diagnostic monitor signal/SPOUT circuit grounded
 
Last edited:
Here's your most likely culprit - That FSB that he outlines is basically a ground issue.





Stolen from FSB.com

DTC 211, 212 & 213; ping, rough idle, missing at speed; "...Misfiring, Rough Idle, Surge, & Ping-Knock Symptoms, due to a Magnetized Shutter Wheel, (Bronco & all Fords w/EEC IV & TFI); "...Inside the TFI distributor is a Hall-Effect sensor that provides an RPM and POSITION signal to the Ignition module and ECM for fuel and ignition control. Mounted to the distributor shaft is a "shutter-wheel" that passes through the Hall-Effect sensor. The slots or windows cut in the shutter-wheel are what makes the Hall-Effect sensor switch on/off to create the signal it sends out. The shutter-wheel is supposed to be a piece of "dead" steel but can become magnetized. A magnetized wheel can cause very erratic operation of the Hall-Effect and resulting erratic output signal. The Test: There are a couple of ways to check for this condition. One is to simply pull off the distributor cap and see if something steel will "stick" to the shutter-wheel. Make sure that whatever you are using to check the wheel with isn't magnetized itself. A more accurate method would be to watch the wave-form on the "SPOUT" wire with a Vantage or Lab-Scope. The SPOUT is the wire with the connector in it that you unplug to set ignition timing. Monitor the wave-pattern on the SPOUT with the timing-connector in. If there is anything erratic about the wave-form, unplug the timing connector and re-check the wave-form. If the pattern "cleans up" all of a sudden, chances are good that you have a magnetized shutter-wheel. The Fix: Most shutter-wheels can be removed from the distributor shaft with a couple of screws. Everybody seems to have their own way of de-magnetizing the wheels but good success has been had with bulk audio-tape erasers or by placing the wheel in an engine parts cleaning oven and baking it. That last one sounds weird but it works..."
Source: by snapon.com via archive.org and miesk5 at FSB


Hesitation, Stumble, Stall, Miss, No Start, No Spark and/or Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) 211 TSB 95-15-11 for 93-95 (Shorts in Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) & Spark Output (SPOUT)); "..The symptoms may occur during any drive mode or at idle. These concerns may be caused by the shielding drain wire (Circuit 48.) cutting through the insulation of, and shorting to, the Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) wire (Circuit 395) or the spark output (SPOUT) wire (Circuit 929) near the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) 60-pin connector. A protruding wire from Splice 145 may also cause the same concern as the wire strand shorts to the PIP, SPOUT, or the foil wrap surrounding the drain wire..."
Wiring Diagram in a 95
Source: by SeattleFSB (Seattle FSB) at 1990 Ford Bronco 1995 Bronco EVTM picture | SuperMotors.net
__________________
More in the TSB;''
http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/b...15-11_Wires_shorting_near_ignition_module.pdf
SEE LOCATION DIAGRAM

Vehicles may exhibit various driveability symptoms, such as no start, no spark, hesitation/stumble/stall/miss and/or Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) 211. The symptoms may occur during any drive mode or at idle. These concerns may be caused by the shielding drain wire (Circuit 48.) cutting through the insulation of, and shorting to, the Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) wire (Circuit 395) or the spark output (SPOUT) wire (Circuit 929) near the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) 60-pin connector. A protruding wire from Splice 145 may also cause the same concern as the wire strand shorts to the PIP, SPOUT, or the foil wrap surrounding the drain wire.

ACTION:
Inspect PIP - Circuit 395 (GY/O), Ignition Ground (IGN GND) - Circuit 259 (O/R), and SPOUT - Circuit 929 (PK) for possible cut insulation from Circuit 48. Also, inspect Splice 145 - Circuit 395 (GY/O) for stray wire strands. If wire insulation is cut, exposing copper wire, repair cut insulation with 3M Mastic Tape. Refer to the following procedure for service details.

SERVICE PROCEDURE
1. Disconnect battery ground cable.
2. If vehicle has the speed control option, remove the speed control servo bracket and position it out of the way for improved access.
3. Disconnect the connector at the Ignition Control Module (ICM - formerly TFI).
4. Unbolt the 60-pin connector from the PCM and pull the wiring up to work on.
5. Remove the 1" (25.4mm) diameter convoluted tubing from the wiring assembly. The date code tag will remain taped to the convoluted tubing.
6. Remove/cut the tape of the wiring assembly. Work toward the the ICM connector (pull back convoluted tubing as needed).
7. Unravel aluminum foil tape and electrical drain wire (Circuit 48.) from main bundle, exposing the junction or "Y" splice between the ICM tapeout and the PCM tapeout. Be careful with the foil wrap because it will be reused.
NOTE: THE FOIL WRAP LENGTH WILL BE ABOUT 5" (127mm) BEYOND THE "Y" BRANCH. THE END WILL BE TOWARD THE ICM CONNECTOR.
8. After the foil wrap is removed, look for the three (3) "grouped" wires in question at the "Y" splice. The three (3) wires are: PIP - Circuit 395 (GY/O), IGN GND - Circuit 259 (O/R), and SPOUT - Circuit 929 (PK).
9. Locate the (bare) electrical drain wire. Wire end is toward the ICM connector, again, about 5" (127mm) from the "Y" splice. Unravel wire from the top (ICM) end and down to the area where the bare wire makes contact with the three (3) wires mentioned above.
10. Inspect for any damage to the insulation of the three (3) wires in question. If wire insulation is cut, exposing copper wire, repair cut insulation with 3M Electrical Moisture Sealant-Mastic Tape (3M Part No. 054007-06147).
11. Inspect Splice 145 - Circuit 395 (GY/O) for stray wire strands (Figure 3). If stray wire is found, apply pressure on the wire with pliers to bend the wire down and wrap the splice with three (3) layers of flame retardant vinyl tape, or equivalent, to ensure the wire does not make contact with other wires or the foil wrap.
12. Carefully rewrap the bare electrical drain wire and foil. Work backward, toward the ICM connector end. Tape end of foil wrap to secure.
13. Retape worked area securely (between PCM and ICM connectors) with flame retardant vinyl tape, or equivalent.
14. Reinstall all convoluted tubing and tape ends of tubing to the tubing with flame retardant vinyl tape, or equivalent.
15. Reinstall PCM connector to the PCM.
16. Reinstall the ICM connector.
17. Reinstall the speed control servo bracket (two bolts) if applicable, and tighten bolts to 15-18 N-m (11-13 lb-ft).
18. Reconnect battery ground cable.
 
Finished replacing said parts.....Nothing.

No change; still runs like shit. :mad3: 😕


The only thing I can think of is;
it idled fine BEFORE I replace the cap and rotor.
What brand cap? I've had new faulty car quest cap before... causing major frustration.
 
Also, I saw it mentioned, what firing order are you using?
Haynes repair manual:

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Here's your most likely culprit - That FSB that he outlines is basically a ground issue.





Stolen from FSB.com

With downtime due to waiting for parts, I'm finally able to wrap my little nOOB/ADHD brain around code 211's solution.


Basically; find certain wires in a wire harness/insolate with aluminum foil/then wrap with electrical tape.

Does that sound about right?
 
Haynes repair manual:

X-gUKlX&tn=wQja48nMLT_9aAsL&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.jpg
I'm not busting your balls, but you just posted two totally different 5.0 firing orders for your truck built on the split, we know ford used up old stock constantly, and we know your truck is pushing 30 and who knows if the engine was swapped at some point.
You said your problems arose after the tune up, you need to verify your firing order before throwing more parts at it
 
I'm not busting your balls, but you just posted two totally different 5.0 firing orders for your truck built on the split, we know ford used up old stock constantly, and we know your truck is pushing 30 and who knows if the engine was swapped at some point.
You said your problems arose after the tune up, you need to verify your firing order before throwing more parts at it
I'm using the rotor diagram on the right ('94 5.0L).

I guess I'm missing your point; are you saying verify the firing order by other means/not the Haynes repair manual?


You raise an interesting point: Is my engine the factory original?


What makes it a plausible question (to me) is the fact that I have a grey ICM and will be replacing it with a proper black one (as per FSB).

And it looks like the current ICM has been unplugged at some point:
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The rough idling started after I changed the rotor and cap.

I did initially fuck up the plug placement on said cap; but corrected it, and had my son verify each spark plug was correctly placed.
 
According to FSB I should have the black ICM; not the grey one, which I currently have.


To say the least; it will be interesting when I install it. 🤔 :laughing: :homer:
 
It ran well
You took all the wires off the cap and put them on a new cap, now it runs like shit

You looked at the wires and looked at the book, then probably pointed to the same diagram when showing your son.

Maybe you need to try the other firing order, or put your old cap and rotor back on, then try both firing orders.

Or try it Kyle's way

Ford does stupid shit mixing and matching, then people swap parts down the line, you really don't know what's in that bay, only that it ran well when you owned it.

I recently put an 89 5.8 in a 93 bronco, after pulling out the 94 van 5.8 that somebody swapped in when the original 5.0 went.....
 
It ran well
You took all the wires off the cap and put them on a new cap, now it runs like shit

You looked at the wires and looked at the book, then probably pointed to the same diagram when showing your son.

Maybe you need to try the other firing order, or put your old cap and rotor back on, then try both firing orders.
Thanks for the suggestion; it opens options to try. :beer:

Or try it Kyle's way

Going to do that after I get an understanding of it :emb4:

Ford does stupid shit mixing and matching, then people swap parts down the line, you really don't know what's in that bay, only that it ran well when you owned it.

I recently put an 89 5.8 in a 93 bronco, after pulling out the 94 van 5.8 that somebody swapped in when the original 5.0 went.....

AHHHHHHH!!! Ok!
 
My bronco was built in October 1987. No reason at all it should be an ho firing order. Someone stuffed an explorer 5.0 in it somewhere along the line, so going off the book didn’t do me any good. They also stabbed the distributor in 180* out:homer: Fun mysteries for 16yo me to solve
That's how I fucked up the spark plug wire placement.


I was going by the two clip positions and the black plug on top; totally forgot about the tab that was next to the forward clip. :homer: :mad3: 😕
 
It should drop each cylinder as you pull the wire. If you pull a wire and get no change, then that cylinder is one giving you problems.

If you have a couple that are problems, you probably have some wires swapped. If it’s only one, I’d lean towards the wire got messed up during removal and reinstall. If it drops every cylinder like it should, I’d throw the old cap and rotor back on to verify it’s not out of spec new parts.
Ok; so this nOOB understands:
1) I fire up the engine.
2) Engine running rough/shaking
3) I pull a plug on the cap
....a) If wire is correct, I see/hear a drop in idle-engine speed???
....b) If wire is placed wrong, no change will occur?

^^^Is the above correct?^^^


When my son checked my placements, he found one mistake (2 wires) misplaced.

Apparently the other six wires were correct.

He made the corrections.
 
Did you change the wires at the same time as you did the cap?

Did you remove, or move the distributor?

Regardless of your answers, you need to go to square one, verify #1 spark plug, then wire the firing order for your year, run it and report back.

If it's not running correctly, reinstall the old cap and rotor

From there run "the other firing order"
 
Did you change the wires at the same time as you did the cap?
Negative
Did you remove, or move the distributor?
Negative
Regardless of your answers, you need to go to square one, verify #1 spark plug, then wire the firing order for your year, run it and report back.
Will do
If it's not running correctly, reinstall the old cap and rotor
Will do
From there run "the other firing order"
Ok
 
First off, get a white marker and a flashlight, maybe a mirror, a 15/16" deep socket on a long ratchet pull the number one plug, stick your finger on it, and verify #1 TDC compression stroke

You can't really trust the balancer markings, they slip and screw you over

The white marker is so, only after you verify compression stroke, you can screw around and make a mark when you first see the piston move this way, then a mark that way, then a big mark in the middle, getting you close enough to center that and set your distributor #1 from there


It's common enough that the last guy working on your truck staged the distributor wherever and started the firing order on his new #1, and then you swapped the cap and set #1 where the book says it should be
 
Did this just start running shitty one day? Or did you do work to it prior to that?

I saw that the cap and rotor change is when the poor idle came on, but maybe not the hesitation issue?

Either way, verify all this shit, get your ignition 100% then move forward
 
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