Byro
Lurkin’
So it’s just the tip of the tappet broke off not letting the valves open??
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1991 Snow Tracker Build
- Thread starter FleshEater
- Start date
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- Tags
- suzuki
FleshEater
Ordinary Average Guy
I don’t know...everything looks good on top?
I did do another compression test after adjusting the valves. It didn’t register on the gauge, but I did release some air out after the test.
Not sure how serious it is, but it ran better after the adjustment.
FleshEater
Ordinary Average Guy
Did a leak down test. Smacked the intake valve around and it closed. Exhaust valve is still leaking slightly. It’s about 10% on the leak down test.
I ordered up Amsoil engine and transmission flush and some top end cleaner for fuel. Just going to run it through a few cycles of those and then re-check compression.
Fawk it.
I ordered up Amsoil engine and transmission flush and some top end cleaner for fuel. Just going to run it through a few cycles of those and then re-check compression.
Fawk it.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
Turbo?
If the valves are sticking partially open that’s fairly awesome because that’s an easy fix. It’s just built up carbon and varnish on the valve stems and this one still runs. Does it still have the catalytic converter in it?
FleshEater
Ordinary Average Guy
Can I clean it up without removing the head? I’ve been working it back and forth with a set of locking needle nose pliers.
It does. I need to cut it off.
EDIT: I soaked the two valves down with Kroil and worked the exhaust valve back and forth a few times. I’ll just let it sit and soak.
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YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
A mechanic buddy of mine said that running atf in your engine for a bit can clean it out pretty good. Would this be a case of that?
Obviously don't do it for very long
Obviously don't do it for very long
I don’t know how to explain it to you but I do it all the time. At work we have engines that run 24 hours a day every day for years. When conditions are wrong some of them will get a gummy buildup on the valve stem and stop the valve from closing and sealing. This usually manifests itself with a hung exhaust valve causing no compression and the engine will inhale through the exhaust.
They tend to close better when cold and all the metals are shrunk as far as they’ll go. You can take a mallet and tap tap tap on the rocker basically forcing the valves to open and close slightly violently. Don’t use a metal hammer, you’re just making it open snd close with rapid succession.
Then, you need to get the throttle body accessible in a way that you can pour fluid in it with the engine running. Get it running and rev it up with the throttle body slightly open to a couple thousand rpm but you’re not trying to scatter it. The best fluid is Marvel Mystery oil. type F ATF is a close second. You need to continually pour a steady drizzle of marvel/atf in and let it drink and smoke till it’s labor knocking. Don’t let off the gas, let it eat and smoke and knock. Don’t drown it so that you hydro lock it.
This will hammer the shit out of the valves, the top piston ring and anything with sticky varnish or hard carbon on it. After you feel like you can’t stand the abuse you’re putting your engine through any more, stop the drizzle of marvel/atf but maintain that 2000 rpm till the smoke clears up. Then you can shut it off and let it cool down. Take another compression test, maybe throw some new spark plugs in it. See what it does. You might get your 4th cylinder back 100%. There are videos on YouTube but I can’t make myself watch them to see if they are really helpful. Like I said, we do it all the time at work. I do it to stuff on the farm and anywhere else I’ve got a low compression cylinder.
They tend to close better when cold and all the metals are shrunk as far as they’ll go. You can take a mallet and tap tap tap on the rocker basically forcing the valves to open and close slightly violently. Don’t use a metal hammer, you’re just making it open snd close with rapid succession.
Then, you need to get the throttle body accessible in a way that you can pour fluid in it with the engine running. Get it running and rev it up with the throttle body slightly open to a couple thousand rpm but you’re not trying to scatter it. The best fluid is Marvel Mystery oil. type F ATF is a close second. You need to continually pour a steady drizzle of marvel/atf in and let it drink and smoke till it’s labor knocking. Don’t let off the gas, let it eat and smoke and knock. Don’t drown it so that you hydro lock it.
This will hammer the shit out of the valves, the top piston ring and anything with sticky varnish or hard carbon on it. After you feel like you can’t stand the abuse you’re putting your engine through any more, stop the drizzle of marvel/atf but maintain that 2000 rpm till the smoke clears up. Then you can shut it off and let it cool down. Take another compression test, maybe throw some new spark plugs in it. See what it does. You might get your 4th cylinder back 100%. There are videos on YouTube but I can’t make myself watch them to see if they are really helpful. Like I said, we do it all the time at work. I do it to stuff on the farm and anywhere else I’ve got a low compression cylinder.
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FleshEater
Ordinary Average Guy
I’ll grab some Marvel today and try this. It’s all torn apart so I have access to the throttle body. It’s kind of like sucking seafoam through the booster.
My spark plugs are covered in a heavy black carbon. This thing needs cleaned, probably from not running long or hard enough.
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And from leaky valve guides and probably cheap motor oil because it’s a geo with an oil leak.
FleshEater
Ordinary Average Guy
You’re probably right.
If I can get this thing to unstick I’ll be happy. The Kroil really loosened up the valve and made spinning it much easier. Still no compression.
Amsoil stuff is coming tonight and I have a valve cover gasket to pick up at NAPA. I’m going to do as you said and just throw the kitchen sink at this thing. Amsoil cleaner poured onto each valve, Amsoil top end cleaner dumped in the gas, and MMO through the throttle body. If it doesn’t clean out enough to gain compression back after that...ugh. Since I can’t really just replace a valve or anything without causing issues elsewhere I’ll just keep running her.
The Metro was at one time only 3 cylinders.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
What's funny is the metro 3cyl was only like 6 hp less than a Sami. I had a 3cyl I was going to put to a 3spd auto in a kid buggy. It was comically small and light. I could very easily pick it up.
FleshEater
Ordinary Average Guy
Everything but the kitchen sink worked.
Ran almost a whole bottle of MMO through the throttle body like JR4X suggested. Also dumped a whole thing of Amsoil cleaner in the fuel (way too much as it treats 30 gallons), and Amsoil engine flush in the valves.
I buttoned everything up and warmed it up and just hammered the fawk out of it for a good 15-20 minutes. It runs better and faster than it ever has. I actually hit 60 mph a couple times in 4th gear!
Got back from the run and pulled plug #1 and it wasn’t wet. It was dry and slightly white. Leak down test showed me I had a leak in the new tester. Once I fixed that it read 0.
Didn’t do a compression test, but screw it. It’s running well.
Ran almost a whole bottle of MMO through the throttle body like JR4X suggested. Also dumped a whole thing of Amsoil cleaner in the fuel (way too much as it treats 30 gallons
), and Amsoil engine flush in the valves.I buttoned everything up and warmed it up and just hammered the fawk out of it for a good 15-20 minutes. It runs better and faster than it ever has. I actually hit 60 mph a couple times in 4th gear!
Got back from the run and pulled plug #1 and it wasn’t wet. It was dry and slightly white. Leak down test showed me I had a leak in the new tester. Once I fixed that it read 0.
Didn’t do a compression test, but screw it. It’s running well.
crispins
FJB
If you have any neighbors they will hate you for doing this - fucking huge smoke show!
crispins
FJB
awesome to hear!Everything but the kitchen sink worked.
Ran almost a whole bottle of MMO through the throttle body like JR4X suggested. Also dumped a whole thing of Amsoil cleaner in the fuel (way too much as it treats 30 gallons
I buttoned everything up and warmed it up and just hammered the fawk out of it for a good 15-20 minutes. It runs better and faster than it ever has. I actually hit 60 mph a couple times in 4th gear!
Got back from the run and pulled plug #1 and it wasn’t wet. It was dry and slightly white. Leak down test showed me I had a leak in the new tester. Once I fixed that it read 0.
Didn’t do a compression test, but screw it. It’s running well.
FleshEater
Ordinary Average Guy
Fucking 0 compression and 10% leak down after a drive tonight. Oh well, fawk it. Guessing the valve isn’t fully cleaned out yet. I’ll do another smoke show in a week or so. It’s running great.
Are you sure there’s even a piston in that hole? I burned a pizza 🍕 slice out of an intake valve on an engine once and it still put out 20 psi of compression
Byro
Lurkin’
Why not pull the spring and put a drill on the stem, give her a little lap job action.
That is of course if it is the valve and not lack of rings.
That is of course if it is the valve and not lack of rings.
If he can put air in the spark plug hole and it won’t slam the valves shut I don’t know if he’ll be able to get the valve springs off.
FleshEater
Ordinary Average Guy
Honestly it runs great.
I can’t fix it if it’s a bent valve without rebuilding the whole engine. When I dropped the oil pan the bottom end looked good.
My exhaust bolts came loose so maybe I’ll stick a camera in there and see what’s going on.
I can’t fix it if it’s a bent valve without rebuilding the whole engine. When I dropped the oil pan the bottom end looked good.
My exhaust bolts came loose so maybe I’ll stick a camera in there and see what’s going on.
Byro
Lurkin’
I was thinking the rope trick.
FleshEater
Ordinary Average Guy
Pulled the exhaust today. Surprised all the bolts came loose!
I tried cleaning my valve with carb and throttle body cleaner, but looking closer, I think my valve might be broke...or bent. See that weird gap on the right side of the valve?
I tried cleaning my valve with carb and throttle body cleaner, but looking closer, I think my valve might be broke...or bent. See that weird gap on the right side of the valve?
crispins
FJB
dude that head is so easy to pull off, like under 1 hour
Just pull it and have it fixed at your local machine shop.
I pulled mine off, had it milled and the valves done, new seals installed.
It was around $100 - $150 total.
Just pull it and have it fixed at your local machine shop.
I pulled mine off, had it milled and the valves done, new seals installed.
It was around $100 - $150 total.
FleshEater
Ordinary Average Guy
Guys above said I’ll have issues with the rings after doing that...
Definitely found the valve is broken. I’ll bet a piece of that screw that fell put did it.
Attachments
crispins
FJB
wut?
You have a bent valve, pull head, have valve replaced.
Do the other stuff such as seals and slight mill while you already have it off.
Will not have issues with the rings
Can you get a bottle in there to put gasoline in there. It looks like a burnt valve. If you pour gas in there it should hold the fluid. If the gasoline pours into the cylinder in a second that valve is probably burnt.
FleshEater
Ordinary Average Guy
I can do that.
I’m definitely not wasting money on this head. All the good machine shops around here are backed up for a whole year, so fawk pulling the head and hoping I get it back.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
New head I linked was like $400, I'd rather do that than fidle fuck with a machine shop and waiting. Just r&r the same day.
Buuut, that can cause issues with bottom ends. I've seen it and someone else verified it. All that new found compression on a 200-300k mile bottom end isn't good.
crispins
FJB
well you are going to need to pull the head off anyway to change out the bad valve.
You could mail the head somewhere to get done, the shop I use here turns them around in 1-2 days
Fuck if you want to mail it to me I'll get it taken care of and sent back to you.