1988 Samurai Turned Buggy

[FleshEater]

I debated posting this. Got three running projects on here as is, but…it’s a great way to document progress and ask questions.

So, a couple Sundays ago I bought this turd off Craigslist for way less than they were asking. Because, well it’s a turd.

The motivation to buy this was to finally learn how to build. Tubing/cage work, axle swaps, etc. I’ve never done anything like this before so it’s exciting to finally do it to a turd. If I screw it up, then oh well.

It’s a running…uh…driving 88’ Sami. The day I brought it home my oldest kid was all over it and made tons of laps around the property in it. He wants me to keep it running while I work on it, but that will not be possible.

Since then all I’ve done is take out the winch and cut off that front bumper.

Plan is to strip it down to bare, bare minimum wiring. Maybe a custom dash with a few gauges. Different seats. Full exo-cage after cutting the rear half of the cab off and front fenders. Toyota axles on 35’s. All I’ve got so far.

This will probably end up like a hack-fab job, but I have to start doing this stuff and might as well wreck this first.

More pics from today…most of this has to be done outside, or wait until spring/summer.

I also brought home a pile of awesome Toyota stuff from Wuz-A-zuk this weekend in trade for delivering a Tracker drivetrain to him.

The rot:

The awesome steering.

The Toyota goodies.

So another journey begins.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

That tub makes me so glad I live on the correct side of the country

What's the specs on the axles? Lockers? Gears? Chromo?

The nice thing about the samurai is that is so light, even the stock axles are pretty bulletproof. I bashed mine pretty good on 33-35s with a 6.4 tcase and never broke anything. I did bend a front housing though

Have you figured anything out for springs yet? I kinda think that maybe spua rear and spoa front is the best balance.

 

[FleshEater]

That tub makes me so glad I live on the correct side of the country

What's the specs on the axles? Lockers? Gears? Chromo?

The nice thing about the samurai is that is so light, even the stock axles are pretty bulletproof. I bashed mine pretty good on 33-35s with a 6.4 tcase and never broke anything. I did bend a front housing though

Have you figured anything out for springs yet? I kinda think that maybe spua rear and spoa front is the best balance.

Dude I know. But I guess it gives me an excuse to learn how to do metal work more betterer.

4.10 gears, welded rear diff, high steer kit, and maybe stock axles? Wuz-A-zuk rattled off so much about all the stuff he gave me I can’t remember, and I have never owned a Toyota straight axle, so…

Man I don’t have any clue what to do about suspension. Trying to research, but there’s 10,000 different set ups on these Zuks. And a lot of the old info is all gone.

 

[2big bronco]

Yj leafa spua with 33s. Cut what rubs and 6-1 tcase gears with cradel. The thing will go more places then you should in it.

 

[FleshEater]

Yj leafa spua with 33s. Cut what rubs and 6-1 tcase gears with cradel. The thing will go more places then you should in it.

It’s getting 35’s.

The 6.1 gears are on the list.

This thing ain’t going anywhere without the body falling off the frame over the first obstacle.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Yj leafa spua with 33s. Cut what rubs and 6-1 tcase gears with cradel. The thing will go more places then you should in it.

I don't the the YJs are worth it in the front, the stick out way to far for small tires.

They're OK in the rear. But the hangars are anchors too. Mine ride like total shit, despite being super flat.

Toyota rears are similar lengths but an offset pin so it would move the axle forward.

The other thing is that these leafs aren't just laying around junkyards anymore.

I'm pretty happy with my trail gear rear leafs in the front. I thought about just getting another set for the rear to ditch the YJs, but I think I want to raise the leaf mounts up and run something with more arch, or just go links

I feel like some trail gear or similar front Toyota leafs would be good in a stretched samurai front and rear, may have to pull a few leafs.

 

[2big bronco]

It’s getting 35’s.

The 6.1 gears are on the list.

This thing ain’t going anywhere without the body falling off the frame over the first obstacle.

Ok but please keep it spring under. On 35s it would be way unnecessarily tall and tippy spoa.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Dude I know. But I guess it gives me an excuse to learn how to do metal work more betterer.

4.10 gears, welded rear diff, high steer kit, and maybe stock axles? Wuz-A-zuk rattled off so much about all the stuff he gave me I can’t remember, and I have never owned a Toyota straight axle, so…

Man I don’t have any clue what to do about suspension. Trying to research, but there’s 10,000 different set ups on these Zuks. And a lot of the old info is all gone.

Shoot, just throw a spartan locker in the front and maybe some 5.29s.

You going to run the 1.3 for a bit or just go straight to a motor swap and auto?

 

[2big bronco]

I don't the the YJs are worth it in the front, the stick out way to far for small tires.

Hes running 35s so them sticking out shouldnt be much of an issue. Ive had a lot of spring combinations on samurais and stock yjs with the spring clamps bent out were number 1 followed by stock rear yotas, And third samurai rears all around with the bottom leaf band sawed off at the block leaving a chunk there as a 5/8 thick block and then bending out the clamps.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Ok but please keep it spring under. On 35s it would be way unnecessarily tall and tippy spoa.

Totally agree, when I was talking spoa front, I guess I didn't mention that I was thinking about a raised frame section and much higher shackle mounts. Like right under the grill.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Hes running 35s so them sticking out shouldnt be much of an issue. Ive had a lot of spring combinations on samurais and stock yjs with the spring clamps bent out were number 1 followed by stock rear yotas, And third samurai rears all around with the bottom leaf band sawed off at the block leaving a chunk there as a 5/8 thick block and then bending out the clamps.

They still suck, Wilson's is spring over on 35s, I've wheeled it and we both thought the leafs sticking out front sucked.

Cutting clamps? Really? Is this 2002 where flex is priority, even if you bend and break leafs all the time?

 

[2big bronco]

They still suck, Wilson's is spring over on 35s, I've wheeled it and we both thought the leafs sticking out front sucked.

Cutting clamps? Really? Is this 2002 where flex is priority, even if you bend and break leafs all the time?

No bending the clams into a U instead of having them fold over the top of the leaf. They still keep everything in alignment but allow everything to move a lot more.

 

[FleshEater]

Shoot, just throw a spartan locker in the front and maybe some 5.29s.

You going to run the 1.3 for a bit or just go straight to a motor swap and auto?

Running the 1.3, and plan on just beating it to death…if possible.

I definitely don’t want this too tall, but not sure how far I want to get into stretching the front super far. I’m going to chop up the sides and do boat sides, which will tie into the rest of the tub work. If the clutch allows, I can suck the floor boards in a smidge.

Stretching the back is fine. But the steering is going to be either a money pit or a pain. Finding a Toyota FJ gear box is stupid expensive…so going to try and make Tracker steering work.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

No bending the clams into a U instead of having them fold over the top of the leaf. They still keep everything in alignment but allow everything to move a lot more.

I know what you mean, I guess maybe on a light zuk you can get away with it, but I'll take durability over flex everytime.

I wonder if ome Toyota rears would be a good fit? They're typically pretty affordable. I have them in the front of my 81. They flex ridiculously, but seem a little soft for that rig. Probably be perfect for a Sami. Run the long side towards the center and build new shackle mounts, would be a decent wb stretch f&r.

 

[FleshEater]

I know what you mean, I guess maybe on a light zuk you can get away with it, but I'll take durability over flex everytime.

I wonder if ome Toyota rears would be a good fit? They're typically pretty affordable. I have them in the front of my 81. They flex ridiculously, but seem a little soft for that rig. Probably be perfect for a Sami. Run the long side towards the center and build new shackle mounts, would be a decent wb stretch f&r.

Problem is I can’t just try this stuff…nothing is just laying around. Has anyone used the Toyota springs before?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Running the 1.3, and plan on just beating it to death…if possible.

I definitely don’t want this too tall, but not sure how far I want to get into stretching the front super far. I’m going to chop up the sides and do boat sides, which will tie into the rest of the tub work. If the clutch allows, I can suck the floor boards in a smidge.

Stretching the back is fine. But the steering is going to be either a money pit or a pain. Finding a Toyota FJ gear box is stupid expensive…so going to try and make Tracker steering work.

The 1.3 is pretty durable, I really like the 3k carb for the price, simplicity and performance, if you have any issues with the stock one.

It's super easy to cut right up to the door without even disturbing the tub. Never done more than that on a Sami, but anything is possible. I believe the boat sides are a much bigger advantage than people realize, especially after wheelin the 81.

The tracker box isn't bad at all. Especially since you have all the shit laying around. It can be drilled an tapped for hydro assist also. If you end up wanting to go tc pump, let me know, I have a psc bracket in my stash. It burnt, but probably fine

If you keep it super low, a big stretch isn't really necessary. Short wb is what makes the zuks maneuverable and able to pull off dumb shit that makes guys with bigger rigs scratch thier heads. Id probably shoot for ~3-5" f&r. Should be possible without too much crazyness and get you a really solid rig.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Problem is I can’t just try this stuff…nothing is just laying around. Has anyone used the Toyota springs before?

I ran them f&r on mine. First was short side forward in the back, built new shackles hangers. Didn't stretch it much.

Flipped them for a ~5"? Stretch

Then stretched the front frame and did a shackle reversal (I was young and dumb ) and ran them with 1 extra leaf in the front.

I meant ome as in old man emu

CS009R-P - Old Man Emu Rear Leaf Springs (Pair with Bushings/Sleeves) - 84-89 4Runner / 79-88 Pickup

Vehicle Fitment: 1984-1989 4Runner with Rear Leaf Springs 79-88 Pickup

www.toyteclifts.com

 

[FleshEater]

The 1.3 is pretty durable, I really like the 3k carb for the price, simplicity and performance, if you have any issues with the stock one.

It's super easy to cut right up to the door without even disturbing the tub. Never done more than that on a Sami, but anything is possible. I believe the boat sides are a much bigger advantage than people realize, especially after wheelin the 81.

The tracker box isn't bad at all. Especially since you have all the shit laying around. It can be drilled an tapped for hydro assist also. If you end up wanting to go tc pump, let me know, I have a psc bracket in my stash. It burnt, but probably fine

If you keep it super low, a big stretch isn't really necessary. Short wb is what makes the zuks maneuverable and able to pull off dumb shit that makes guys with bigger rigs scratch thier heads. Id probably shoot for ~3-5" f&r. Should be possible without too much crazyness and get you a really solid rig.

This guy said he put a Toyota carb on it. I don’t what it is, but this thing fires up in 30 degree temps like a fawkin EFI engine. I’ve been really impressed. It needs all the leaks fixed, and an exhaust.

I want to use as much as I can that’s laying around. I’ll run it without hydro and see how it does. If it sucks maybe SLOWPOKE693 will sell his set up from the Tracker he cut up…

3” in the front, 5” in the rear?

I’ll have a ton of questions, but that’s why I posted up.

 

[Wuz-A-zuk]

Sweet, another build thread . I think you're officially running the most build threads on the site, definitely in the Suzuki section.

For those playing along and making recommendations. I traded parts for parts with Fleshy. To play with he currently has a complete set of fairly stock-ish axles, 4.10 gears, still factory brakes, welded rear, older all pro hysteer, stock shafts, some armor.
On top of that I threw in all my spare parts I had which included 2 extra factory housings (1 front, 1 rear), three 3rds (ratio?), 3-4 knuckles, 4-6 hubs, extra stock shafts, spindles, set of front Toyota leaf springs. New parts are complete knuckle rebuild kit, wheel bearings, arp studs for most of the axle, tg spindle hardware kit, new brass bushings, sky's "yota front under zuk" perch/u-bolt kit. And some random stuff like armor and such.

I suggested a rebuild on the axles (obviously), run the 4.10's (welded in rear), yj's spring under front and rear. Run 3 hole perches with the axles pushed as far out as possible. Should net 4-5" WB gain from the yj springs and perches.

I get what YotaAtieToo is saying about the front spring hangout but personally I see this as a give and take with this setup. This doesn't change with any leaf he picks with the exception of running offset pin springs like Toyotas but this also opens a bigger can of worms running offset Toyotas, he'll then be into frame extensions and moving steering boxes which is fine if he's ok with that.

Minus wheelbase gain the Toyota spring and yj springs are no different in ride quality, flex, or possibly even strength. The Toyotas offset pin takes away some flex so even being a longer spring they flex no better than the yj. Ive broken front main leafs on both yj's and Toyotas on the same obstacle.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Sweet, another build thread . I think you're officially running the most build threads on the site, definitely in the Suzuki section.

For those playing along and making recommendations. I traded parts for parts with Fleshy. To play with he currently has a complete set of fairly stock-ish axles, 4.10 gears, still factory brakes, welded rear, older all pro hysteer, stock shafts, some armor.
On top of that I threw in all my spare parts I had which included 2 extra factory housings (1 front, 1 rear), three 3rds (ratio?), 3-4 knuckles, 4-6 hubs, extra stock shafts, spindles, set of front Toyota leaf springs. New parts are complete knuckle rebuild kit, wheel bearings, arp studs for most of the axle, tg spindle hardware kit, new brass bushings, sky's "yota front under zuk" perch/u-bolt kit. And some random stuff like armor and such.

Hopefully not so old that the arms are cast?

I'd look into the fror keyed arms and get the flat ones if spua is the plan. Then run the steering under them, this would give the best chance of keeping the steering out of the frame.

I suggested a rebuild on the axles (obviously), run the 4.10's (welded in rear), yj's spring under front and rear. Run 3 hole perches with the axles pushed as far out as possible. Should net 4-5" WB gain from the yj springs and perches.

I get what YotaAtieToo is saying about the front spring hangout but personally I see this as a give and take with this setup. This doesn't change with any leaf he picks with the exception of running offset pin springs like Toyotas but this also opens a bigger can of worms running offset Toyotas, he'll then be into frame extensions and moving steering boxes which is fine if he's ok with that.

If have to go measure, but iirc yj are 47" 9-89 Toyota rears are 48" the difference is the yj leafs are centered and the Toyota leafs are around 21/27. There is a little variation depending on year and weather there are stock or aftermarket, but not a ton.



So basically given the same spring hanger, a Toyota will stretch the wb 3" more. Not all that different from the yj's with the offset perches really, which helps my argument here as much as it hurts it

I figured moving the steering box was going to be a given considering his goals. If I were him, I'd cut the frame at the engine mount and run fresh 2x4 tube straight out. You have to drill 2 new holes for the tracker box, so a 3rd isn't a big deal.

If he wants something easier, I'd suggest looking at the trail gear zuk leafs. Rears up front would move the axle forward a little and only require a new shackle hanger.

Minus wheelbase gain the Toyota spring and yj springs are no different in ride quality, flex, or strength. The offset pin takes away some flex so even being a longer spring they flex no better than the yj. Ive broken front main leafs on both yj's and Toyotas on the same obstacle.

I agree with this. I've bent a fair amount of both. I'm not a huge fan of using junkyard leafs for that reason. Fwiw, bds has a lifetime warranty on thier leafs. I bent one of their yj leafs in my 4runner backing off an undercut ledge. All I had to do was send a Pic of the damage and the end cut off the leaf. They sent me a new one. I'm tempted to try their ~3" lift leafs in the back of mine with raised hangers. I really like that they are mil wrapped on both ends. Running the Toyota leafs the the long side on the fixed end puts the mil wrap on the wrong side. I know people who have flipped it by redrilling the mil wrap leaf, but that's a pain.

 

[Covecrawler]

I had a full trail-tough YJ SPOA kit on this one, it flexed and rode wonderful. As others have said it was tall.

My favorite setup has been CJ5 springs SPOA in the front, with the shackle hanger moved out and up to the front of the frame, keeps it super low.
And Toyota rears SPOA in the back with a traction bar. Long half of the leaf forward. The shackle tube was through the frame and the spring hanger was welded to the back of the body mount/factory leaf spring hanger doodad.

I raised all the mounting points as much as possible to keep it low, and SPOA.

 

[Covecrawler]

this is a pic of the Sami that I really liked the suspension setup on.

 

[FleshEater]

this is a pic of the Sami that I really liked the suspension setup on.

Oh man that is perfect.

Are you saying stock or lift CJ5/Toyota springs? This would work on Toyota axles?

I’m reading all of this and just re-reading, because I know nothing about any of this. Good way to get information in here for other ‘s like me.

 

[Covecrawler]

Oh man that is perfect.

Are you saying stock or lift CJ5/Toyota springs? This would work on Toyota axles?

I’m reading all of this and just re-reading, because I know nothing about any of this. Good way to get information in here for other ‘s like me.

All stock springs. It was on Toyota axles as well.

 

[FleshEater]

All stock springs. It was on Toyota axles as well.

Not bad pricing from Rock Auto. I’ll have to check out BDS for that warranty mentioned.

These, right?

 

[Covecrawler]

Dang, you fancy. In the Suzuki section wanting to buy new leaf springs.
97226 and 90115 look like what I was using, but used and worn out before I installed it.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Not bad pricing from Rock Auto. I’ll have to check out BDS for that warranty mentioned.

These, right?

Definitely go bds or ome, they're about the same price or maybe less and built for offroad abuse. My buddy saved like $30 buying some factory replacement YJ leafs for his build and they didn't last long. More arch is a good thing too, within reason.

I'm betting the CJ5 leafs are pretty similar to the Sami trail gear rears.

If it were me starting from scratch, I'd probably pick one leaf and make it work front and rear.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Just to add some tech, since a lot of this stuff is getting harder and harder to pull up.

All measurements are along the leaf

Trail gear 3" samurai rear springs. 2" wide, 4 total leafs, mil wrap on long side with (weak) full wrap clamps roughly half way between the pin and eye on each end

Eye to eye: 42"

Short side to pin: 20 1/2"

Long side to pin: 21 1/2"

Unknown (stock?) yj leafs 2.5" wide 4 total leafs, no milwrap 3 full wrap clamps total.

Eye to eye: 46"

Eye to pin (centered) : 23"

Ome (old man emu) Toyota rears for I believe a first gen (79-83) 2 3/8" width 4 leafs plus 2 overloads, 180* clamps with cross bolt allowing movement, full mil wrap on short side and 1/4 wrap on long side (these specs also match stock 82 rear leafs except 1 less leaf and slightly different clamps)

Eye to eye: 47"

Short side to pin: 21"

Long side to pin: 26"

Stock fronts (according to Google) 2" wide, no milwrap

Eye to eye: 36 3/4"

Centered pin: 18 3/8"

Stock rears (according to Google) 2" wide, no milwrap

Eye to eye: 39 3/4"

Short side to pin: 19 1/2"

Long side to pin: 20 1/4"

Looking at these specs, I'm seeing that the Toyota leafs will give a 3" longer stretch than the YJs in the same hanger. With the YJ's you could get it closer to 2-1" with offset perches. You could also offset the Toyota leads, although I think getting too offset at some point will hurt performance.

The Toyota rears get you about the same approach angle as the trail gear rears with the same mounts.

I remembered that the trail gear rear leafs will not bolt into the stock front hangers. The eye is larger and you will need a larger hanger. Which isn't a big deal since the stock ones are so thin that they don't last long in rocks.

With stock hanger location, Toyota rears would give you roughly a 7 1/2" stretch in front and a 5 1/2" rear.

YJs would be 4 1/2 and 2 1/2 rear.

 

[FleshEater]

Dang, you fancy. In the Suzuki section wanting to buy new leaf springs.
97226 and 90115 look like what I was using, but used and worn out before I installed it.

Well if I could find this junk for cheap, used, I would. It’s all gone around here, man.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Well if I could find this junk for cheap, used, I would. It’s all gone around here, man.

Thats what people don't get.

"Just swap Toyota axles"

"Just use yj leafs"

"Just swap in a 1.6"

The shit is all but dried up and you're lucky if you find anything remotely reasonably priced.

If a few hundred for leafs is too expensive, you're probably in the wrong hobby, at least this decade :(