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1940 Cincinnati No 2 High Speed Vertical Mill Partial Refurb and Repairs

CarterKraft said:
Well that's pretty stupid huh.
I wouldn't worry about it being "worth it" , it will be "worth it" when its running and you will no what you have.
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True. I just caught a weird range of flak over Christmas from both family and friends about my "obnoxious amount of impossibly heavy shit". But oh well, I also wasn't yelling at the TV and then angry over some random sporting event that doesn't matter. To each their own.

In a positive note. The machine didn't come with a handle for the knee, so I set out to find one. I posted in a machinist group looking for one and was told that a shop a guy worked for had gotten rid of one of these machines (didn't specify if that was scrap or sold) and the handle didn't get sent with it and was floating around in a cabinet. He said if I sent him a label to ship it I could have it for free. Bingo... it showed up fast too and is exactly correct.

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AlxJ64 said:
True. I just caught a weird range of flak over Christmas from both family and friends about my "obnoxious amount of impossibly heavy shit". But oh well, I also wasn't yelling at the TV and then angry over some random sporting event that doesn't matter. To each their own.

In a positive note. The machine didn't come with a handle for the knee, so I set out to find one. I posted in a machinist group looking for one and was told that a shop a guy worked for had gotten rid of one of these machines (didn't specify if that was scrap or sold) and the handle didn't get sent with it and was floating around in a cabinet. He said if I sent him a label to ship it I could have it for free. Bingo... it showed up fast too and is exactly correct.

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The power of the internet!
Thats awesome you got a OG handle.
 
AlxJ64 said:
True. I just caught a weird range of flak over Christmas from both family and friends about my "obnoxious amount of impossibly heavy shit". But oh well, I also wasn't yelling at the TV and then angry over some random sporting event that doesn't matter. To each their own.
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Yeah, I'm constantly getting crap like that from family and friends. Somehow them spending time and money on all kinds of things is perfectly fine, but my interests and activities are somehow a personal affront to them.
 
PAToyota said:
Well, I know what you're saying, but I disagree...

The people complaining about my "hobbies" are also the ones showing up with something they want me to fix for them...
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Neighbors? Lol, I have that problem sometimes.

A box of cookies and a bottle of wine every year before Xmas hand delivered go a long way in my experience.
 
Cookies and wine for me for fixing their crap? Or cookies and wine for them to stop complaining about my crap? :lmao:

My crap is mostly under cover. And it's more my family and friends that complain about me than my neighbors.
 
PAToyota said:
And it's more my family and friends that complain about me than my neighbors.
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This is me... certain friends especially. I have one that I'm pretty sure his ol' lady is planning my demise because its always about "when you die, you're going to leave all this mess of old junk for other people to have to get rid of and that's thoughtless of you". I used to try and defend the point and say people will want it or buy it, or whatever. Now I just say "yep, not my problem" and let her run at the mouth.

Back to the project:
Peeking through the access covers at the motor wiring, I could see the 9 lead terminal box but it was in a location that was really hard to get to. One of the T bolts holding the motor down was missing (has been for a long long time based on the grease and chip build up) and another one of the leveling rods for the base is broken off too. I wanted to make sure the machine was in fact wired for low voltage and wired correctly. The line wires from the starter to the motor were starting to have that layer of "yellow glass" on them when that old stuff starts to get when the plastic is deteriorated so I decided it best to pull the motor out, fix the bolt situation and clean up and verify the low voltage Wye junction.

Tip that worked really well for picking up the motor off of the toggle bolts - I ran a ratchet strap behind the back of the motor through the access ports in the column, and then also hung the front from the main pulley. I slid the T-bolts for the motor base out of the way and then set the motor down on two pieces of thin box tubing that bridged the motor plates (the sump in the knee is below). The steel extended far enough inside to act as skis to slide the motor out and onto a piece of Oak board that I had. The whole process went VERY smooth. Did need a crows foot to get enough leverage on the one rear (front of machine) motor bolt nut.

I'm going to clean the thing up really well, back wrap the winding leads with good heat shrink and clean up the brass Tap tags that are numbered 1 - 9 very clearly. I'll get some nice machine cord and even make a new cover for the box while I am at it.

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AlxJ64 said:
True. I just caught a weird range of flak over Christmas from both family and friends about my "obnoxious amount of impossibly heavy shit". But oh well, I also wasn't yelling at the TV and then angry over some random sporting event that doesn't matter. To each their own.
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I have nothing for them.

Those people aren't machinist, fabricators or gearheads.
They only see junk which they might be right in some instances:grinpimp:
I have basically tooled up a fabrication shop in the last 10 years.

I don't tell my worthless BIL that he is a waste of flesh, he doesn't tell me I have too much "stuff".
 
re: the box cover
that just looks like a standard octagon box
hardware store prolly got one for 98 cents

on stuff like that that isn't ever really gonna be run at its max hp, if enough of the belts fall apart I'd seriously consider splicing a rope to the right length to just do a rope drive on the pullies
 
If you're interested, I have the tool and sleeve assortment for applying the labeling sleeves on the motor leads. We built electric motors at my old job and I 'borrowed' it to label the leads on the wiring harness in my buggy (the yellow labels near the molex connectors here):

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I can't find a picture of the tool, but it's a 3-pronged needle looking thing that you slide the sleeve over, squeeze the handle and it expands the sleeve, so you can set it on the wire (do this before crimping a terminal to it). Sleeves are all printed with the right numbers for electric motors.

Sucks because I just drove through Richmond today on my way to SC for vacation, but if you want when I get home next week I can get some pictures of the assortment and tool, all yours if you want to borrow it as well (company no longer exists).
 
AlxJ64 said:
True. I just caught a weird range of flak over Christmas from both family and friends about my "obnoxious amount of impossibly heavy shit". But oh well, I also wasn't yelling at the TV and then angry over some random sporting event that doesn't matter. To each their own.
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I didn't want to clutter up your thread any more, but posted over in Chit Chat if anyone else wants to weigh in: Flak from family and friends about your hobbies?
 
Abom79 just posted a video about re-doing some cincinnati mill parts.
 
vetteboy79 said:
I mentioned this earlier, but if you (or anyone else) want to borrow it for labeling motor leads, it's all yours. Sleeves go from T1 to T12.
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Man! Those are cool! Sorry I didn't respond to the first message about this sooner! This motor is actually well marked with brass tags that I can re-use, but I do have two other machines that I need to do the similar with in the next month or so once I get that shop space set up. I have a large vertical bandsaw and a giant Barnes Drill that I am in the process of getting cleaned up and placed. If it is available in another month, I'll try to find a way to borrow it from you! Many many thanks!
Also, I go through a pair of those same Merrill shoes about every 18 months, super comfortable and versatile.

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[486] said:
re: the box cover
that just looks like a standard octagon box
hardware store prolly got one for 98 cents

on stuff like that that isn't ever really gonna be run at its max hp, if enough of the belts fall apart I'd seriously consider splicing a rope to the right length to just do a rope drive on the pullies
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Aye, and I looked in both the Lowes and HD near me the other day grabbing other stuff and they didn't have them as its an odd size. They had 4" ones but this is a 3-1/2" or something and the leg lengths are weird.
I'll zip one out on the plasma table when I am running some thing gauge again so its not really a problem. Funny thing is I had a 4x4 pallet of vintage electrical stuff this time last year that I sold to a guy who does building restorations for historical organizations, there were certainly a few hundred of these in that pallet crate.

surpip said:
Abom79 just posted a video about re-doing some cincinnati mill parts.
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Aye, the shaft he is doing is part of the main drive mechanism. I don't have access to weld flame spray equipment so I am just going to machine my setup from a single piece and have the gear itself hardened. I have to get my Bridgeport wired up first though and find the right size involute cutter to match the rack. I may be making a new rack gear too as I can't really see it yet until I pull the weights off. Once I get the motor cleaned up and back in place, I will take the machine off the cart so that I can get my big engine crane around the base and start pulling the head. Yes, I have an engine crane that big.
 
AlxJ64 said:
Aye, and I looked in both the Lowes and HD near me the other day grabbing other stuff and they didn't have them as its an odd size. They had 4" ones but this is a 3-1/2" or something and the leg lengths are weird.
I'll zip one out on the plasma table when I am running some thing gauge again so its not really a problem. Funny thing is I had a 4x4 pallet of vintage electrical stuff this time last year that I sold to a guy who does building restorations for historical organizations, there were certainly a few hundred of these in that pallet crate.
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Ah, those are a little harder to find, I probably have a few in the barn somewhere.

Aaron Z
 
Nice barnes!
they made some real wild drills at the end of the camelback era, I passed on one a while back that was all geared with an angled driveshaft like that, no belts at all
really regret not buying it
 
AlxJ64 said:
Aye, and I looked in both the Lowes and HD near me the other day grabbing other stuff and they didn't have them as its an odd size. They had 4" ones but this is a 3-1/2" or something and the leg lengths are weird.
I'll zip one out on the plasma table when I am running some thing gauge again so its not really a problem. Funny thing is I had a 4x4 pallet of vintage electrical stuff this time last year that I sold to a guy who does building restorations for historical organizations, there were certainly a few hundred of these in that pallet crate.
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Call him and ask if he has one? :confused:
 
AlxJ64 said:
Man! Those are cool! Sorry I didn't respond to the first message about this sooner! This motor is actually well marked with brass tags that I can re-use, but I do have two other machines that I need to do the similar with in the next month or so once I get that shop space set up. I have a large vertical bandsaw and a giant Barnes Drill that I am in the process of getting cleaned up and placed. If it is available in another month, I'll try to find a way to borrow it from you! Many many thanks!
Also, I go through a pair of those same Merrill shoes about every 18 months, super comfortable and versatile.
Click to expand...

No worries, kit isn't going anywhere, just holding down space on my electrical shelf. Figured I'd throw it out there as it's not the most common thing to have laying around.

And yeah, I've been rockin' this same Merrill model for 6+ years for everything except snow, usually have a 'nice' pair and a 'working' pair at any given point and they naturally just progress through. It's good when you find something you can trust to just repeat-order and have it be consistently nice 🙂 besides wearing them daily I've got hundreds of hiking miles all over the country and I couldn't ask for better.
 
Scored some tool holders for this thing off of the book of faces. That place is so frustrating to deal with people sometimes; there are still some missing because the guy didn't think about packing size of box, shipping costs, etc. Charged me, FB set his shipping prices, then it was too late, then he wanted more money, blah blah, there were some CAT40 holders that I was supposed to have gotten too but my intention was to list those on fleabay and recoup some funds. I've got very little in these, even with shipping. One of these is an R8 adapter, so do I need to find a socket screw or machine something that will draw in the R8 tool, basically a mini - draw bar? I don't have any R8 tooling because my Bridgeport that I refer to as "Bridgie Smalls" is a small dinosaur and uses MT2 stuffs. I do want a "real" Bridgeport but may look for something CNC-ish for that machine.
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You'd almost need to use the drawbar in the R8 holder and sandwich the CAT50 adapter with it.

What's the slot in the R8 adapter? Almost looks like a drift slot on an MT spindle to release the tool. I guess since you won't be able to tap the drawbar like on a regular R8 spindle, you'll have to use that to break the R8 tool from the adapter?
 
bgaidan said:
You'd almost need to use the drawbar in the R8 holder and sandwich the CAT50 adapter with it.

What's the slot in the R8 adapter? Almost looks like a drift slot on an MT spindle to release the tool. I guess since you won't be able to tap the drawbar like on a regular R8 spindle, you'll have to use that to break the R8 tool from the adapter?
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R8 is far too shallow a taper to be self-holding
ETA: even MT end mills and such are not really self-holding, they will sorta stay in there especially if you get some miles on them with the drawbar cranked down, but just hammered into the spindle they do not hold well at all
Er, b&s taper with the taper shank endmills, but close enough animal, and the end mill holders and collets for the MT m-head BP are the same story

prolly just a 7/16-20 SHCS accessible through the 5/8-11 drawbar hole for the #40
 
So the MT spindle release slots aren't in the R8, they're in the 30 to 50 adapter and the other one is a the Cincinnati stamped holder that the markings are pictured; its a 1-1/4" Weldon holder that also has an MT3 shank bore inside as well.

The R8 adapter has a shoulder inside so yea, a SHCS could easily be used to draw in the R8 and then the 50 taper drawbar on the mill would hold the tool in place; this is an NMTB 50 taper machine that is a 1"-8 drawbar. Theres also a set screw thing in the side of the R8 adapter... this help keep the SCHS from backing out?

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Side view of R8 adapter showing set screw

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Shoulder inside looking down from the 50 drawbar pull side (top)
 
AlxJ64 said:
Theres also a set screw thing in the side of the R8 adapter... this help keep the SCHS from backing out?
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that's the drive key, the reason all the R8 stuff has a keyway in it
it is kinda better to back that out as if you shear it then it can make the tool stick in the spindle, well, adapter
 
Got the motor on the bench tonight and started cleaning it up. Everything about this old machine is just art to me. You can certainly see the late '30s curves of architecture this old motor.

Also, I am using electric motor safe cleaner, and not just regular brake parts cleaner, to keep from possibly harming any old type winding insulations if it gets inside.

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