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'05+ Ford Super Duty Dana 60 Axle Tech & Info

2013+ are bigger rotors and calipers, 18" rim required. The knuckle has a 10" on center brake abutment mount.
 
Fake news, 17" wheels fit and are available from the factory.

You are correct. 17X7.5 rims with 245/75R17 and 265/70R17 tires were available and fit with wonky spacing. If you want any wider rims or different back space, an 18" rim is required. Which is why Ford went 18x8 for the 275/65R and 275/70R. I thought this is Irate and folks would run something with better load and traction capability. So want wider than a 7.5" rim? 18's are required. Ask me how I know.

You can go back to your Facebook job now.
 
You are correct. 17X7.5 rims with 245/75R17 and 265/70R17 tires were available and fit with wonky spacing. If you want any wider rims or different back space, an 18" rim is required. Which is why Ford went 18x8 for the 275/65R and 275/70R. I thought this is Irate and folks would run something with better load and traction capability. So want wider than a 7.5" rim? 18's are required. Ask me how I know.

You can go back to your Facebook job now.

My buddy has 17x9"s on his 2017 :shaking:
 
My buddy has 17x9"s on his 2017 :shaking:

Because you can, doesn't mean you should, the question was for street performance and longevity. I wanted the same with a 38x13.50 tire.

Why do you think Ford switched to 18's for bigger tires on wider rims with the bigger brakes? You think they just said fuck it, let's go for more expense that most won't want to pay for?

But let's play: What back spacing? How's the alignment? Front tire wear? Wandering down the road?

I can't get a 17x10 in any backspacing I'd want to run in a non-brodozer truck that will see 30-50K miles of street wear on the same tires.




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Now that we've established that 12+ may or may not support 17" rims. How about what/if any aftermarket brake kits are available that will work with 17"?

One of my rims is 17x9 -5 offset. I can't seem to find the other rim.

As for my comment about longevity, I'm trying to avoid 3/8" rotors.
 
Now that we've established that 12+ may or may not support 17" rims. How about what/if any aftermarket brake kits are available that will work with 17"?

One of my rims is 17x9 -5 offset. I can't seem to find the other rim.

As for my comment about longevity, I'm trying to avoid 3/8" rotors.

We did a Wildwood Street Performance GT kit a 2010 axle, it cleared 17" wheels.

I like the late model brakes with the 14.29" rotors.

SSBC has a 6 pot caliper that fits the later abutments too.
 
We did a Wildwood Street Performance GT kit a 2010 axle, it cleared 17" wheels.

I like the late model brakes with the 14.29" rotors.

SSBC has a 6 pot caliper that fits the later abutments too.

Thank you. Do you happen to have a part number for the kit you used? My search on Wilwood is only giving me 20" wheel required kits:homer:
 
Putting the new pads in the new calipers, they supplied a baggy of weird shim/springs. Who knows how these fit in there?:confused::eek:

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Because you can, doesn't mean you should, the question was for street performance and longevity. I wanted the same with a 38x13.50 tire.

Why do you think Ford switched to 18's for bigger tires on wider rims with the bigger brakes? You think they just said fuck it, let's go for more expense that most won't want to pay for?

But let's play: What back spacing? How's the alignment? Front tire wear? Wandering down the road?

I can't get a 17x10 in any backspacing I'd want to run in a non-brodozer truck that will see 30-50K miles of street wear on the same tires.




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What about the 17"x9" do you think doesn't work on the street? Why don't you post up why it doesn't work instead of claiming that it doesn't :homer: I know for a fact they do work on an exclusively street driven tow rig running 35/12.50R17 KO2s. He actually originally bought the wheel and tire combo for his 2011, then swapped them on his '17 when he traded the '11 in on it. I don't know how many miles he has on the truck now, but the tire and wheel combo has been on it for going on 4 years now. The truck is aligned to factory specs and drives like a Cadillac going down the road.

I helped him spec out the wheels when he bought them since he is not the most mechanically inclined. They are the 17"x9" KMC Addicts. Looks like they have been discontinued, so I can't look up exact specs, but the whole tire and wheel combo only sticks out slightly further than stock and doesn't look "Bro dozer" at all. I don't have any good pictures of his truck, just a few pictures with it in the background and other things in the way.

Also, when you go to KMC's website and search by application, they show 17" wheels for a '17 Superduty.
 
What about the 17"x9" do you think doesn't work on the street? Why don't you post up why it doesn't work instead of claiming that it doesn't :homer: I know for a fact they do work on an exclusively street driven tow rig running 35/12.50R17 KO2s. He actually originally bought the wheel and tire combo for his 2011, then swapped them on his '17 when he traded the '11 in on it. I don't know how many miles he has on the truck now, but the tire and wheel combo has been on it for going on 4 years now. The truck is aligned to factory specs and drives like a Cadillac going down the road.

I helped him spec out the wheels when he bought them since he is not the most mechanically inclined. They are the 17"x9" KMC Addicts. Looks like they have been discontinued, so I can't look up exact specs, but the whole tire and wheel combo only sticks out slightly further than stock and doesn't look "Bro dozer" at all. I don't have any good pictures of his truck, just a few pictures with it in the background and other things in the way.

Also, when you go to KMC's website and search by application, they show 17" wheels for a '17 Superduty.

Why do you think that Ford OEM went to an 18" wheel for bigger tires and for the bigger brakes? Hint: it's the clearance is suggested by OEM's for wheels and brakes.

A wider rim needs to move out to clear the caliper. It increases scrub and changes thrust angles

I had to go to an 18x10 for my truck.
 
Why do you think that Ford OEM went to an 18" wheel for bigger tires and for the bigger brakes? Hint: it's the clearance is suggested by OEM's for wheels and brakes.

A wider rim needs to move out to clear the caliper. It increases scrub and changes thrust angles

I had to go to an 18x10 for my truck.

Do not forget about SHTF.
Running a 17" on the larger brakes leaves just enough room for air and not much else. A good size pothole with a full load and a low tire pressure can close that air gap between the wheel and the caliper. Then the wheel grinds and drag steers and side swipes a school bus sending the kids off the side of the hill into the canyon below all because someone wanted better tire selection.
 
Do not forget about SHTF.
Running a 17" on the larger brakes leaves just enough room for air and not much else. A good size pothole with a full load and a low tire pressure can close that air gap between the wheel and the caliper. Then the wheel grinds and drag steers and side swipes a school bus sending the kids off the side of the hill into the canyon below all because someone wanted better tire selection.

I didn't. Good for a crawler, not great for 100K + trucks out there, where statistical probability will bite your ass.

Most brake manufacturers allow for 4mm of rim deflection. We really should, too.
 
I don't understand why you say the 17" don't work.

I have 17x9 on my 2016 axle.
I personally feel ford went with 18" because they have a higher load rating and the truck manufactures all want a bigger payload number than the next guy.

fetch
 
I don't understand why you say the 17" don't work.

I have 17x9 on my 2016 axle.
I personally feel ford went with 18" because they have a higher load rating and the truck manufactures all want a bigger payload number than the next guy.

fetch

You're running winky tires that are in Ford's spec for the 17" rims.

I didn't say they won't work, in certain situations. I went with Ford's suggestion for bigger, wider rims and their offsets.

Maybe "required" is too strong a language, from Ford.
 
Why do you think that Ford OEM went to an 18" wheel for bigger tires and for the bigger brakes? Hint: it's the clearance is suggested by OEM's for wheels and brakes.

A wider rim needs to move out to clear the caliper. It increases scrub and changes thrust angles

I had to go to an 18x10 for my truck.

I didn't. Good for a crawler, not great for 100K + trucks out there, where statistical probability will bite your ass.

Most brake manufacturers allow for 4mm of rim deflection. We really should, too.

You're running winky tires that are in Ford's spec for the 17" rims.

I didn't say they won't work, in certain situations. I went with Ford's suggestion for bigger, wider rims and their offsets.

Maybe "required" is too strong a language, from Ford.

Grendel, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about, and now you are doubling down with the stupid :shaking: Fact is, 17" is a factory fitment, and there are people running aftermarket 17" wheels with no problem as Weldmn has corroborated. As long as the wheel isn't rubbing on the calipers and the max load of the wheels is equal to or greater than the GAWR there isn't a problem. We have 4 2013+ Superduties at work with 17" wheels, two of which are running larger than stock BFG M/Ts.

Please show me this documentation from Ford saying you can't run 17" wheels :laughing: While you are at it, explain to me how a wider wheel changes the thrust angle :shaking: You are also aware that when you run larger than stock diameter tires, you need an increased amount of offset to correct the scrub radius, right?

Here are some potato pics of my buddy's truck I referenced earlier; bone stock other than the wheels and tires. Are 35" tires "winky" too even though ford doesn't offer a larger factory fitment? He isn't a hot shot driver, but he does tow with his truck, so don't try to argue that he isn't working the truck hard enough to have issues with the 17" wheels :rolleyes:

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Do not forget about SHTF.
Running a 17" on the larger brakes leaves just enough room for air and not much else. A good size pothole with a full load and a low tire pressure can close that air gap between the wheel and the caliper. Then the wheel grinds and drag steers and side swipes a school bus sending the kids off the side of the hill into the canyon below all because someone wanted better tire selection.

Ford puts 17" wheels on as a factory fitment :homer: what exactly about running a wider than stock wheel is going to change that?

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So why does Ford run small tires on 17" rims?

Why do they run larger tires on 18" rims?

Same question from the start.
 
Ford went with 4MM between the wheel and the caliper. You should too. Either move them out or up. Most 17's can't do this on 2013+ brakes without different offsets changing geometry.
 
So why does Ford run small tires on 17" rims?

Why do they run larger tires on 18" rims?

Same question from the start.

Ford went with 4MM between the wheel and the caliper. You should too. Either move them out or up. Most 17's can't do this on 2013+ brakes without different offsets.

Probably because the 17" wheels are only available on the entry level XLs and the XLs have always had the cheap/smaller tires than higher trim levels. Are you saying the factory Ford wheels don't meet this 4mm spec you keep bandying about? Are you saying the difference in size between 275/65R18 and 265/70R17 (Less than .5") exceeds the margin of safety for wheel to caliper contact?

I am not saying that any aftermarket 17" wheel will absolutely work on the newer big brake axles, but your statement that you have to run 18" wheels is patently false, and now you are just waving your hands and coming up with excuses why you weren't wrong.
 
Probably because the 17" wheels are only available on the entry level XLs and the XLs have always had the cheap/smaller tires than higher trim levels. Are you saying the factory Ford wheels don't meet this 4mm spec you keep bandying about? Are you saying the difference in size between 275/65R18 and 265/70R17 (Less than .5") exceeds the margin of safety for wheel to caliper contact?

I am not saying that any aftermarket 17" wheel will absolutely work on the newer big brake axles, but your statement that you have to run 18" wheels is patently false, and now you are just waving your hands and coming up with excuses why you weren't wrong.

Maybe?

I am focused on the Ford wheel shell diameter and materials, the caliper, rotor and abutment hub spacing of later Ford model brakes. You know, what Ford spent MILLIONS on?

But hey, this guy's put 17" wheels where Ford hasn't. Good luck!

Back to FB fact checking, where some, but not all or most is wrong.
:shaking:
 
Maybe?

I am focused on the Ford wheel shell diameter, the caliper, rotor and abutment hub spacing of later Ford model brakes.

But hey, this guy's put 17" wheels where Ford hasn't. Good luck!

Back to FB fact checking, where some, but not all or most is wrong.
:shaking:

I have yet to see you post any facts (A.K.A. Tech), or cite any sources for the information you have posted. While others have posted photographic evidence and real-world experience that you somehow dismiss as "Facebook fact-checking". :shaking:

Allow me to indulge you, where does this 4mm spec come from? What is the basis? What load cases were used to come up with this? Was this determined empirically, or through simulation and analysis?

I can't tell you what the clearance between my buddy's wheels and his calipers is, but it is apparently enough that it is a non-issue with 35" tires on a diesel truck that tows :flipoff2:
 
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I have yet to see you post any facts, or cite any sources for the information you have posted. While others have posted photographic evidence and real-world experience that you somehow dismiss as "Facebook fact-checking". :shaking:

Allow me to indulge you, where does this 4mm spec come from? What is the basis? What load cases were used to come up with this? Was this determined empirically, or through simulation and analysis?

I can't tell you what the clearance between my buddy's wheels and his calipers is, but it is apparently enough that it is a non-issue with 35" tires on a diesel truck that tows :flipoff2:

You posted the facts for me.

Ford tire sizes, the Ford rim sizes and offsets. They don't put larger tires on smaller rims.

You can post the aftermarket sizes... or didn't.

But if Ford isn't willing to stand behind the engineering, I am not either.

You're posting shit engineering from two use cases. Ford has how many trucks with 18" wheels and larger tires to clear the larger brakes?

You can find fifty? How many warranties did Ford stand behind?

Here's a hint, it's in the millions... and they'll bounce ball joint and wheel bearing warranties for different offset wheels.
 
You posted the facts for me.

Ford tire sizes, the Ford rim sizes and offsets. They don't put larger tires on smaller rims.

You can post the aftermarket sizes... or didn't.

But if Ford isn't willing to stand behind the engineering, I am not either.

You're posting shit engineering from two use cases. Ford has how many trucks with 18" wheels and larger tires to clear the larger brakes?

You can find fifty? How many warranties did Ford stand behind?

Here's a hint, it's in the millions... and they'll bounce ball joint and wheel bearing warranties for different offset wheels.

Got it, so if Ford didn't offer it from the factory it's dangerous and you'll kill a bus load of nuns. I am glad you are bringing this information to a website where people are cutting up and modifying absolutely every aspect of their vehicles :laughing:


Grendel, I am done with the conversation at this point because you obviously aren't going to post any credible information to support your claim, and I think any sane person can see that 17" wheels do in fact fit on late model axles.
 
It's really easy. 17" wheel fit, with offsets you may not want to run. I said that 2 pages ago.

Otherwise, why did Ford go with 18" wheels when they're optimizing profit?

As for posting facts, you disagree that Ford went to a 18" rim for anything wider than a 7.5" wide rim? Or hey, are those 17" rim steel with covers and 18" rims are aluminum?
 
On road caliper to wheel clearance is easy to find.
3.5 MM is close to 1/8" of an inch

https://www.racetechnologies.com/article/how-measure-your-wheel-proper-brake-clearance
Allow 3mm in all directions from the caliper to the wheel.

https://tires.tirerack.com/tires/Caliper Clearance
You should have at least 3-4mm of clearance between your wheels and the brakes on the vehicle.

The spec that you will not find is for off road use which is what most everyone on this site is going to use the axle in. Not pavement driving. So when the wheel gets bent a little on a rock, 1/8" by spec is all that is needed for wheel to caliper collision.

I went through a lot of trouble to adapt smaller calipers onto the F550 so I could run thick wall 17" Trail Ready wheels without a big offset and still have plenty of room for a bent wheel.

I'm sure there are many pavement pounders running stock 17" with success but that does not mean its a good idea for heavy off road use.
 
I understand it's supplier related, not necessarily Summit's fault. Just saying the date isn't guaranteed or anything.

Let us know how it goes.

Short side was supposed to show up today. My account on Summit's site said "expected delivery 3/23/2021" until 11:20pm. Now it's supposed to be delivered 4/14/2021. :rolleyes:

If you look on the link to the actual part Summit has expected delivery 3/30/2021???
 
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