• Last Call Guest on these Group Buy Deal Items from Baja Designs
  • We're moving data around, images may be off/on over the next few hours. Nothing is lost aaand no ... Nothing will Change Fo2

Thought about switching auto insurance

WTF? said:
Perfect! Then they can deny your claim for noncompliance when you get in an accident without the phone.

None of those driving tracker app discounts are for your benefit, they serve the insurer.
They pay you to have them because the privacy and data you give them is worth more to them than the discount you receive... :shaking:

If they can't use my *ing decade and a half of no claim history and no traffic infractions to offer me a decent rate, * em.
Click to expand...
you have to take a certain amount of trips to qualify.
 
Bob002 said:
you have to take a certain amount of trips to qualify.
Click to expand...

The 90 day program is pretty clearly an angle to get people to download the app and then forget to delete it;


www.libertymutual.com

RightTrack Terms & Conditions | Liberty Mutual

The following outlines the terms of participation for enrollment in the RightTrack® program offered by Liberty Mutual.
www.libertymutual.com www.libertymutual.com

We may cancel your enrollment if we do not receive enough information to properly derive a premium adjustment


But here's the kicker:

We reserve the right to modify or discontinue the Program with or without notice to you. If we discontinue the Program, you must cease use of the Technology.

You should regularly check for any changes to the Terms and Conditions. If you continue to use the Program after any changes to the Terms and Conditions are posted on this site, you will be considered to have accepted, and to have agreed to be legally bound by, such changes.

And they can also use it against you and share it with whomever they please:

You also agree that we may use the data in connection with any insurance claim, including for purposes of reporting, investigating and adjusting such claim(s). We reserve the right to collect data as long as the App is in use and may retain the collected data as allowed by law. The data collected may be used as described above for current and future insurance policies issued by us or an affiliate, including automobile policies and other types of property and casualty insurance policies.

We may provide data to our service providers for the purposes described here. We may also share the data as permitted or required by law, such as pursuant to a subpoena, law enforcement or regulatory inquiry or some other duly authorized request.
 
WTF? said:
The 90 day program is pretty clearly an angle to get people to download the app and then forget to delete it;


www.libertymutual.com

RightTrack Terms & Conditions | Liberty Mutual

The following outlines the terms of participation for enrollment in the RightTrack® program offered by Liberty Mutual.
www.libertymutual.com www.libertymutual.com

We may cancel your enrollment if we do not receive enough information to properly derive a premium adjustment


But here's the kicker:

We reserve the right to modify or discontinue the Program with or without notice to you. If we discontinue the Program, you must cease use of the Technology.

You should regularly check for any changes to the Terms and Conditions. If you continue to use the Program after any changes to the Terms and Conditions are posted on this site, you will be considered to have accepted, and to have agreed to be legally bound by, such changes.

And they can also use it against you and share it with whomever they please:

You also agree that we may use the data in connection with any insurance claim, including for purposes of reporting, investigating and adjusting such claim(s). We reserve the right to collect data as long as the App is in use and may retain the collected data as allowed by law. The data collected may be used as described above for current and future insurance policies issued by us or an affiliate, including automobile policies and other types of property and casualty insurance policies.

We may provide data to our service providers for the purposes described here. We may also share the data as permitted or required by law, such as pursuant to a subpoena, law enforcement or regulatory inquiry or some other duly authorized request.
Click to expand...
Listen - the only one that gives a **** here, is you. I've used this program and managed to save 13% on one vehicle and 18% on another. Second - if you're carrying any sort of cellular device - you're already doing exactly what you're crying about.

And in 8 yrs, I've had exactly 1 client not get better than the initial discount; that was with SAFECO (which is owned by LM and uses the same system) and they were ****tttttttty drivers.

But the amount of people that I've had give me the I DON'T WANT NO ONE TRACKING ME while carrying an iPhone or Android is laughable.
 
WTF? said:
The 90 day program is pretty clearly an angle to get people to download the app and then forget to delete it;


www.libertymutual.com

RightTrack Terms & Conditions | Liberty Mutual

The following outlines the terms of participation for enrollment in the RightTrack® program offered by Liberty Mutual.
www.libertymutual.com www.libertymutual.com

We may cancel your enrollment if we do not receive enough information to properly derive a premium adjustment


But here's the kicker:

We reserve the right to modify or discontinue the Program with or without notice to you. If we discontinue the Program, you must cease use of the Technology.

You should regularly check for any changes to the Terms and Conditions. If you continue to use the Program after any changes to the Terms and Conditions are posted on this site, you will be considered to have accepted, and to have agreed to be legally bound by, such changes.

And they can also use it against you and share it with whomever they please:

You also agree that we may use the data in connection with any insurance claim, including for purposes of reporting, investigating and adjusting such claim(s). We reserve the right to collect data as long as the App is in use and may retain the collected data as allowed by law. The data collected may be used as described above for current and future insurance policies issued by us or an affiliate, including automobile policies and other types of property and casualty insurance policies.

We may provide data to our service providers for the purposes described here. We may also share the data as permitted or required by law, such as pursuant to a subpoena, law enforcement or regulatory inquiry or some other duly authorized request.
Click to expand...
yes sir and I know that all very well.

You have that app on your phone and get into a wreck that shows you were speeding at the time - DENIED!!!!!!!!!!!

As for something you had said, I do not think they could deny a claim just because the cell phone was not present, it is very reasonable to explain that you left it at home that day by accident.
 
Bob002 said:
Listen - the only one that gives a **** here, is you. I've used this program and managed to save 13% on one vehicle and 18% on another. Second - if you're carrying any sort of cellular device - you're already doing exactly what you're crying about.

And in 8 yrs, I've had exactly 1 client not get better than the initial discount; that was with SAFECO (which is owned by LM and uses the same system) and they were ****tttttttty drivers.

But the amount of people that I've had give me the I DON'T WANT NO ONE TRACKING ME while carrying an iPhone or Android is laughable.
Click to expand...
well how about me, as this is orgianlly my thread so lets do a case study

No tickets in 7 years, no accidents ever besides when someone rear ended me 6 years ago and their insurance paid me out like $1500.

835 credit score

I drive a 670HP Corvette and a 500HP Porsche, I live near the Tail of the Dragon and go there a couple times a month plus many other roads I like. I have a road near my house that is amazing, sick twisties as it goes up and down the mountain. I am sure they would drop me quickly if they saw the braking and g forces I put down a few times a week.

I go on rides 2x per month with other sport car owners and dog the **** out of my car all day long.

Plus I also race my Porsche and I bet they would not love that either, Id say the 2 day event I just did at Road Atlanta would be super concerning to them.

So, what do you think would be the result if I had the app on my phone?

Also you may know that I own an ATV park and often ride those which would likely trigger many warnings to the insurance company.

I'd say the app is not a good fit for me at all
 
crispins said:
well how about me, as this is orgianlly my thread so lets do a case study

No tickets in 7 years, no accidents ever besides when someone rear ended me 6 years ago and their insurance paid me out like $1500.

835 credit score

I drive a 670HP Corvette and a 500HP Porsche, I live near the Tail of the Dragon and go there a couple times a month plus many other roads I like. I have a road near my house that is amazing, sick twisties as it goes up and down the mountain. I am sure they would drop me quickly if they saw the braking and g forces I put down a few times a week.

I go on rides 2x per month with other sport car owners and dog the **** out of my car all day long.

Plus I also race my Porsche and I bet they would not love that either, Id say the 2 day event I just did at Road Atlanta would be super concerning to them.

So, what do you think would be the result if I had the app on my phone?

Also you may know that I own an ATV park and often ride those which would likely trigger many warnings to the insurance company.

I'd say the app is not a good fit for me at all
Click to expand...
The app measures 4 things - it may measure more, I cannot say for certain, but it measures 4, of which 2 are mostly irrelevant.

It measures:

  • Hard Starts
  • Hard Stops
  • Total Miles Driven
  • Miles driven between midnight and 4 am
Literally the only things it shows you in the app and what they tell us.

Second - you can delete bad trips. Maybe you weren't the driver. Maybe you just drove **** and it dinged you major.

Third - I'm assuming the only reason you don't have those on a specialty policy is because they are your DDs, but there are def multiple ways in which you could potentially save.

At the end of the day - all of this is cyclical, whether it's because of market conditions or companies getting bought or trying to just correct their ledgers. Do you know what a good Loss Ratio is for auto? under 110%. That's actually like PHENOMENAL. They're paying $1.10 for every $1 collect. None of this is anything different than what I would tell you if you called my agency. I would tell you to check around because the market is so all over the place that I couldn't tell you who had good rates.

I had a dude who had a Commercial Lessor's Risk... My quote was $30k. Shelter Insurance charged him $7k.
 
I have state farm and have been pretty happy with it. Rates are cheap to fair.

I have to say this.

PROGRESSIVE SUCKS DONKEY BALLS AND ASS.

When GF got rear ended last year it was an absolute **** show, it still is.
Took two months to get paid out on her totalled car. Two weeks before a crash agent looked at the car, two weeks before they agreed to total it, and it was ****ed on both ends. They covered a rental for 3 days. THREE ****ING DAYS!!! Never a call returned on anything. weeks in between coms from the actual crash claim agent who apparently was the only one who could handle it. This agent was based in Ohio. Had to send same info and pictures and tell the story multiple times to different people to attempt to get paid out. They still have the claim numbers screwed up to this day. I had to go find an office and sit there until I annoyed somebody to actually get it sorted out. An absolute nightmare.

If I have anything with State Farm.... "Hey Pam, I need a windshield in my truck, rock hit it" "Where will the truck be this week" "I can leave it home" "OK I'll have Safelite come put a windshield in it, is any other glass broken or scratched?" "Driver's window has dirt scracthes in it" "OK they can change that too" "Cool thanks"....

Never hear anything about it and come home to new glass in truck....
 
My wife and daughter have that AAA app, my wife just switches it to passenger when I drive spirited.

If you do some sprints in your vette, it will show a rocket ship instead of a car symbol.
 
KacksterK5 said:
I have state farm and have been pretty happy with it. Rates are cheap to fair.

I have to say this.

PROGRESSIVE SUCKS DONKEY BALLS AND ASS.

When GF got rear ended last year it was an absolute **** show, it still is.
Took two months to get paid out on her totalled car. Two weeks before a crash agent looked at the car, two weeks before they agreed to total it, and it was ****ed on both ends. They covered a rental for 3 days. THREE ****ING DAYS!!! Never a call returned on anything. weeks in between coms from the actual crash claim agent who apparently was the only one who could handle it. This agent was based in Ohio. Had to send same info and pictures and tell the story multiple times to different people to attempt to get paid out. They still have the claim numbers screwed up to this day. I had to go find an office and sit there until I annoyed somebody to actually get it sorted out. An absolute nightmare.
Click to expand...
the company that's stingy about paying claims is probably the one with the best rates...

( I actually just switched to Progressive in Jan for a ~40% lower premium than the next closest competitor. Insurance is a commodity to me- and really mostly serves for peace of mind I fully accept that I'm likely gonna have to go to war to get what I paid for out of a claim regardless of who the carrier is.)
KacksterK5 said:
If I have anything with State Farm.... "Hey Pam, I need a windshield in my truck, rock hit it" "Where will the truck be this week" "I can leave it home" "OK I'll have Safelite come put a windshield in it, is any other glass broken or scratched?" "Driver's window has dirt scracthes in it" "OK they can change that too" "Cool thanks"....

Never hear anything about it and come home to new glass in truck....
Click to expand...
That glass claim can and will be used against you at some point... they're gonna get their money back one way or the other.
 
Last edited:
Bob002 said:
Listen - the only one that gives a **** here, is you. I've used this program and managed to save 13% on one vehicle and 18% on another. Second - if you're carrying any sort of cellular device - you're already doing exactly what you're crying about.
Click to expand...

everyone is tracking you.. so you should sign up for more tracking!
 
WTF? said:
the company that's stingy about paying claims is probably the one with the best rates...

( I actually just switched to Progressive in Jan for a ~40% lower premium than the next closest competitor. Insurance is a commodity to me- and really mostly serves for peace of mind I fully accept that I'm likely gonna have to go to war to get what I paid for out of a claim regardless of who the carrier is.)

That glass claim can and will be used against you at some point... they're gonna get their money back one way or the other.
Click to expand...
It wasn't even them being stingy, they just didn't ****ing respond for weeks. Call, sit on hold, call back, sit on hold. Nobody got time for that. And they changed claim numbers for some reason and still don't have that sorted. Accident was Dec 18, it's May and she still has an open claim on an imaginary claim number that they can't figure out how to close on a car that they now own but it's still on her record.

Changing her to SF or USAA soon.

Not worried about glass, my premiums have dropped on all vehicles. Except the car trailer. So I'll have to stomach the $27 dollars a year for that thing.
 
KacksterK5 said:
It wasn't even them being stingy, they just didn't ****ing respond for weeks. Call, sit on hold, call back, sit on hold. Nobody got time for that. And they changed claim numbers for some reason and still don't have that sorted. Accident was Dec 18, it's May and she still has an open claim on an imaginary claim number that they can't figure out how to close on a car that they now own but it's still on her record.

Changing her to SF or USAA soon.
Click to expand...
USAA is just as ****ty as every other carrier on the market; they actually dropped my dad's policy back in the day citing a single glass claim and a few not at fault incidents they never paid a dime on spread over 4 drivers on the policy.

They haven't been competitive on rates in decades whenever i've shopped them.
 
Tooheysmax said:
Mine was 7600 a year for three cars with USAA been with those flickers since 93 just sold the Hyundai Tuscan insurance rate dropped 230 a month I’m not down to probably 4200 a year. I need to shop around
Click to expand...
I was over 6k a year for cars and 1200 for home owners with USAA, I switched to liberty mutual after doing a bunch of shopping and cut both the cars and the home owners in half with better coverage for both. I'd reduced some of my typical coverage with USAA prior to switching in an atempt to get cost under control, I bumped back up to where I like them with Liberty.
 
rockota said:
everyone is tracking you.. so you should sign up for more tracking!
Click to expand...
I really don't care either way; it's not like we got paid any more or any less, from what I understand.

It was more about the utter lack of common sense. You agree to probably 5-6 different tracking apps throughout the year and don't give it a 2nd thought, not to mention all the apps that want to track that people do not opt out of.

It's asinine.
 
KacksterK5 said:
I have state farm and have been pretty happy with it. Rates are cheap to fair.

I have to say this.

PROGRESSIVE SUCKS DONKEY BALLS AND ASS.

When GF got rear ended last year it was an absolute **** show, it still is.
Took two months to get paid out on her totalled car. Two weeks before a crash agent looked at the car, two weeks before they agreed to total it, and it was ****ed on both ends. They covered a rental for 3 days. THREE ****ING DAYS!!! Never a call returned on anything. weeks in between coms from the actual crash claim agent who apparently was the only one who could handle it. This agent was based in Ohio. Had to send same info and pictures and tell the story multiple times to different people to attempt to get paid out. They still have the claim numbers screwed up to this day. I had to go find an office and sit there until I annoyed somebody to actually get it sorted out. An absolute nightmare.

If I have anything with State Farm.... "Hey Pam, I need a windshield in my truck, rock hit it" "Where will the truck be this week" "I can leave it home" "OK I'll have Safelite come put a windshield in it, is any other glass broken or scratched?" "Driver's window has dirt scracthes in it" "OK they can change that too" "Cool thanks"....

Never hear anything about it and come home to new glass in truck....
Click to expand...
i've heard of more issues with SF than I have Progressive.

But i'm sure you're 2 examples trump my dozens and dozens.
 
KacksterK5 said:
I have state farm and have been pretty happy with it. Rates are cheap to fair.

I have to say this.

PROGRESSIVE SUCKS DONKEY BALLS AND ASS.

When GF got rear ended last year it was an absolute **** show, it still is.
Took two months to get paid out on her totalled car. Two weeks before a crash agent looked at the car, two weeks before they agreed to total it, and it was ****ed on both ends. They covered a rental for 3 days. THREE ****ING DAYS!!! Never a call returned on anything. weeks in between coms from the actual crash claim agent who apparently was the only one who could handle it. This agent was based in Ohio. Had to send same info and pictures and tell the story multiple times to different people to attempt to get paid out. They still have the claim numbers screwed up to this day. I had to go find an office and sit there until I annoyed somebody to actually get it sorted out. An absolute nightmare.

If I have anything with State Farm.... "Hey Pam, I need a windshield in my truck, rock hit it" "Where will the truck be this week" "I can leave it home" "OK I'll have Safelite come put a windshield in it, is any other glass broken or scratched?" "Driver's window has dirt scracthes in it" "OK they can change that too" "Cool thanks"....

Never hear anything about it and come home to new glass in truck....
Click to expand...
I use progressive for my bikes because what I found at the time, they offered protection on helmets, gear, and luggage. I've owned bikes where my helmet was worth more than the bike so I ran with it.
 
woods said:
I use progressive for my bikes because what I found at the time, they offered protection on helmets, gear, and luggage. I've owned bikes where my helmet was worth more than the bike so I ran with it.
Click to expand...
Most of your carriers are going to have gear coverage.
 
Bob002 said:
Most of your carriers are going to have gear coverage.
Click to expand...
Things may have changed? it wasn't something I considered to look for, until I needed. about ten years ago I was in a bad wreck and totaled my bike. I fought tooth and nail to get reimbursed. it was awful dealing with them, just like the OP now. I was out a very expensive helmet and jacket. luggage was shredded too- that alone was worth as much as the bike.

I looked around and at the time Progressive was the only one that explicitly stated they cover gear and luggage.

My company now that I use for my houses and cars will not cover gear/luggage on my bike. Haven't really bothered to look elsewhere since though.
________

edit: how wild is this? I just typed that out, and I get a notification my policy is due for renewal. no joke. that's insane.

I logged in to pay, and found this under the info:

Helpful Info​

Safety Riding Apparel​

If you have comprehensive and collision coverage, Safety Riding Apparel will automatically provide $500 worth of coverage in the event of a covered collision loss or a loss resulting from contact with an animal. You can also purchase additional coverage, up to $3,000. Safety Riding Apparel will cover:

  • Helmets
  • Eye wear
  • Gloves
  • Jackets
  • Leathers
  • Boots
Please note: We recommend that you retain receipts to prove the value of all Safety Riding Apparel at the time of loss. This documentation helps expedite loss settlements.

Note: These definitions are intended only as a guideline. All terms and coverages are defined solely by the policy. Coverage limits, deductibles and certain exclusions may apply.
 
Last edited:
woods said:
Things may have changed? it wasn't something I considered to look for, until I needed. about ten years ago I was in a bad wreck and totaled my bike. I fought tooth and nail to get reimbursed. it was awful dealing with them, just like the OP now. I was out a very expensive helmet and jacket. luggage was shredded too- that alone was worth as much as the bike.

I looked around and at the time Progressive was the only one that explicitly stated they cover gear and luggage.

My company now that I use for my houses and cars will not cover gear/luggage on my bike. Haven't really bothered to look elsewhere since though.
________

edit: how wild is this? I just typed that out, and I get a notification my policy is due for renewal. no joke. that's insane.

I logged in to pay, and found this under the info:

Helpful Info​

Safety Riding Apparel​

If you have comprehensive and collision coverage, Safety Riding Apparel will automatically provide $500 worth of coverage in the event of a covered collision loss or a loss resulting from contact with an animal. You can also purchase additional coverage, up to $3,000. Safety Riding Apparel will cover:

  • Helmets
  • Eye wear
  • Gloves
  • Jackets
  • Leathers
  • Boots
Please note: We recommend that you retain receipts to prove the value of all Safety Riding Apparel at the time of loss. This documentation helps expedite loss settlements.

Note: These definitions are intended only as a guideline. All terms and coverages are defined solely by the policy. Coverage limits, deductibles and certain exclusions may apply.
Click to expand...
Weird that they won't unless they're doing something like extending liability from a HO. But I don't know a MC carrier offhand that doesn't offer some gear coverage.
 
Try having a kid with a learners permit.

He's only driving my old junk with liability. If it gets totaled oh well.

Progressive, $1800/yr. Everyone else $3-5k/yr. Before I added the kid it was $800/yr.

I've been with progressive for 18 years now, they have paid 2 totaled cars ($30k ish) and about $4k on my truck for deer wrecks. The wife's 22 traverse got hailed out twice and both times it was $12-15k for PDR.

So while I've gotten my money's worth, I still call my broker and have him check rates every year or two. In all that time a think there was once where Safeco beat them by $3.
 
Chevy_man said:
Try having a kid with a learners permit.

He's only driving my old junk with liability. If it gets totaled oh well.

Progressive, $1800/yr. Everyone else $3-5k/yr. Before I added the kid it was $800/yr.

I've been with progressive for 18 years now, they have paid 2 totaled cars ($30k ish) and about $4k on my truck for deer wrecks. The wife's 22 traverse got hailed out twice and both times it was $12-15k for PDR.

So while I've gotten my money's worth, I still call my broker and have him check rates every year or two. In all that time a think there was once where Safeco beat them by $3.
Click to expand...
if he's on his permit, that should cost you pretty much zero, assuming it's not some weird situation like he didn't get his license until he was 30.

I want to say that recently there has been a trend where there have STARTED to be some charges, but it's a little difficult to charge for something the person doesn't actually have.

OTHERWISE, you're correct - that **** gets expensive real quick and I try to set that up on the initial conversation so that there is no major shock; in Missouri it adds an average of $250-$300 PER MONTH without a vehicle.
 
Bob002 said:
if he's on his permit, that should cost you pretty much zero, assuming it's not some weird situation like he didn't get his license until he was 30.

I want to say that recently there has been a trend where there have STARTED to be some charges, but it's a little difficult to charge for something the person doesn't actually have.

OTHERWISE, you're correct - that **** gets expensive real quick and I try to set that up on the initial conversation so that there is no major shock; in Missouri it adds an average of $250-$300 PER MONTH without a vehicle.
Click to expand...

It just lists him as an insured driver on the policy. Even if he can't drive alone, he's still the one driving.
 
It's a money grab. Nobody ever gets in an accident on their permit. It's when you get your license that it gets risky. They're just ****ing you because they can.
 
Bob002 said:
• Miles driven between midnight and 4 am
Click to expand...
Seriously? What about the 2nd shift crew returning home?

I had gecko for a while for the cheaper rate but every year it went up, fuk em. Shopping around, I found progressive willing to entice me into a lower estimate, half of what I was paying previously-
 
det107 said:
Seriously? What about the 2nd shift crew returning home?

I had gecko for a while for the cheaper rate but every year it went up, fuk em. Shopping around, I found progressive willing to entice me into a lower estimate, half of what I was paying previously-
Click to expand...
I don't have a great answer, but yes, that is one of the things. Likely due to tired drivers being akin to impaired, etc.

Companies are going to be constantly looking at numbers - expect them to go up, but if it's over a certain %, definitely look around. The **** is incredibly cyclical and you'll be looking at Geico again.
 
Chevy_man said:
It just lists him as an insured driver on the policy. Even if he can't drive alone, he's still the one driving.
Click to expand...
Sir - respectfully - this is what I do. I look at it daily.

Don't believe me, ask YOUR agent. But typically/historically permitted drivers are not chargeable because they don't have an actual license, ASSuming it's a kid in HS; things change when it's someone above that age. I feel like not long ago, we did start seeing a small shift, and it may vary state to state, but in MO, most carriers do not charge for a permit. Hell, Google it, even.
 
arse_sidewards said:
It's a money grab. Nobody ever gets in an accident on their permit. It's when you get your license that it gets risky. They're just ****ing you because they can.
Click to expand...
It's either a state thing or there have been some recent changes... but typically, nah.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Back Refresh