Bench building-Which V8??

Toy4rnr said:
Why did you go with an A650 vs using an sc400 bell, input shaft and pump on an A340? I've always wanted to do a 1UZ swap but I'm too chicken, dual ECU would be required, old one basically for the transmission and a new stand alone for the engine from what I gather since I have an auto. What did you go with for your ECU and are you using factory gauges?
Click to expand...
Stupidity and lack of research mainly. I honestly thought when I was buying it I was going to get an a341 and to my surprise it was the a650. Donor car was a 98 LS400.

The factory 1UZ-vvti ecm controls the a650 natively and the guy I bought the setup from included it. So I watched a video on the cartuneNZ channel and he showed 4wd adapter that he was building so I figuried I would just buy that and stick with the transmission. Well I guess his adapter project either got delayed or there was just not enough demand for them and I was not able to purchase one. So I did what any other person with a welder would do, I made my own. If the adapter holds up to a few offroading trips I will call it a success, otherwise the jury is still out.

Outside of using the a650 on the 1uz-vvti, I could have gotten the automatic transmission emulator from XAT racing (to trick the 1uz ECM), and used the a340 (from my 5vz) + 1uz bell housing + 1uz torque converter and done a manual shift setup on the a340. If anything goes wrong with my a650 setup this is also my fall back plan.

If you go non-vvti you can use the factory ecm and the a340, most people that go vvti or 3uz go manual and never have to deal with any of this. The a750 seems like the easy answer to all of this but controlling it is the issue.

And yes, all my factory gauges work, but I added a digital water temp gauge and I have a analog oil pressure gauge on my filter relocation housing under the hood.
 
vegask said:
Stupidity and lack of research mainly. I honestly thought when I was buying it I was going to get an a341 and to my surprise it was the a650. Donor car was a 98 LS400.

The factory 1UZ-vvti ecm controls the a650 natively and the guy I bought the setup from included it. So I watched a video on the cartuneNZ channel and he showed 4wd adapter that he was building so I figuried I would just buy that and stick with the transmission. Well I guess his adapter project either got delayed or there was just not enough demand for them and I was not able to purchase one. So I did what any other person with a welder would do, I made my own. If the adapter holds up to a few offroading trips I will call it a success, otherwise the jury is still out.

Outside of using the a650 on the 1uz-vvti, I could have gotten the automatic transmission emulator from XAT racing (to trick the 1uz ECM), and used the a340 (from my 5vz) + 1uz bell housing + 1uz torque converter and done a manual shift setup on the a340. If anything goes wrong with my a650 setup this is also my fall back plan.

If you go non-vvti you can use the factory ecm and the a340, most people that go vvti or 3uz go manual and never have to deal with any of this. The a750 seems like the easy answer to all of this but controlling it is the issue.

And yes, all my factory gauges work, but I added a digital water temp gauge and I have a analog oil pressure gauge on my filter relocation housing under the hood.
Click to expand...
I know you said don't ask but I had to ask :flipoff2:. Noted on where that trans came from, I want a non-vvti also. I was thinking of going with Spitronics and a harness for engine management simplicity and just letting my factory ECU essentially be a TCU. For some reason I thought there was a problem with using the runner factory ECU with the donor transmission. I thought about a winters shifter so I could control each gear manually but I also want the automatic functionality which I'm not sure it's possible to have both in that case, I started going down that rabbit hole then wondered if I should just get a TVS and stay 3.4 lol.

My vote is whichever platform is easier to package, for myself a 1UZ would fit the bill because my super nice cross member between my radius arms is also what holds my transmission in place and I would really like to keep that as is.
 
Spitronics has worked for UZ engines and transmissions as well. I haven't kept with their stuff for years, though.

spitronics.com

Spitronics

Explore Spitronics – innovative standalone ECUs, TCUs, and harnesses for performance and custom automotive projects. Reliable engine and transmission management solutions engineered for precision tuning
spitronics.com spitronics.com


2UZ in our '06 4Runner has almost 513k miles now and still runs like a champ.
 
JNHEscher said:
Spitronics has worked for UZ engines and transmissions as well. I haven't kept with their stuff for years, though.

spitronics.com

Spitronics

Explore Spitronics – innovative standalone ECUs, TCUs, and harnesses for performance and custom automotive projects. Reliable engine and transmission management solutions engineered for precision tuning
spitronics.com spitronics.com


2UZ in our '06 4Runner has almost 513k miles now and still runs like a champ.
Click to expand...
See this is the kind of info we need. Is the splitronics ecm controlling the a750 or is it talking to a separate TCM?
 
JNHEscher said:
Spitronics has worked for UZ engines and transmissions as well. I haven't kept with their stuff for years, though.

spitronics.com

Spitronics

Explore Spitronics – innovative standalone ECUs, TCUs, and harnesses for performance and custom automotive projects. Reliable engine and transmission management solutions engineered for precision tuning
spitronics.com spitronics.com


2UZ in our '06 4Runner has almost 513k miles now and still runs like a champ.
Click to expand...
This was the ECU I was looking at, learned about it from this guy.
 
Advance Adapters sells a a750 to atlas adapter

www.advanceadapters.com

TOYOTA FJ CRUISER/TACOMA 05-14 AUTO/ATLAS

buy TOYOTA FJ CRUISER/TACOMA 05-14 AUTO/ATLAS online
www.advanceadapters.com www.advanceadapters.com

For crawler boxes there are at least a few options, trail gear and Marlin make adapters to put the gear drive reduction box behind the a750, from there you can run whatever cases you can adapt to those.

trail-gear.com

Tacoma/FJ T-Case Adapter Plate Kit, 4.0L, Auto

trail-gear.com trail-gear.com

NWF makes a couple options, the eco crawler which uses the VF2/ VF4 (chain drive case from Tacoma/ 4runner/ FJ cruiser etc) planetary in a billet housing, they list multiple rear half output options but I have only seen pics/ build running a second VF behind them. The planetary will be quieter than a gear drive reduction box.

northwestfab.com

Eco-Crawler VF2

Eco-Crawler - The easiest & strongest gear box for your Toyota 4x4. Current Eco-Crawler Lead Time is 8-10 Weeks on all Variations Northwest Fabworks – Innovation in Motion Since 2005 At Northwest Fabworks, we’re committed to designing and manufacturing parts that our customers are just as proud...
northwestfab.com northwestfab.com

NWF also has the block box which is designed to run a split case behind, it would be worth talking to NWF to see what front half option makes sense but I would assume since it’s a 6 bolt it would match the atlas pattern. A 23 spline input could be run with the AA atlas adapter. The downside IMO is you have to run a spud shaft with that adapter - the a750 output is approx 4” recessed in the tail housing.

FYI the photos in the AA link are misleading, that shows the spud shaft for the FJ cruiser manual transmission adapter. The a750 (non Land Cruiser version) has a short 23 spline male output.
 
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Wonder if Nwf can make the eco crawler to split case?

I'm not super familiar with the split case gearing options. Do you want/need a doubler with it and a V8/auto?

Edit: 3.3 or 4.1 gears and 1.1 high

Probably wouldn't need a doubler
 
The transfer case out of a FJC will work with the a750 and its fully manual. Easy to convert to twin stick with the FROR shifter, no wires needed.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Edit: 3.3 or 4.1 gears and 1.1 high

Probably wouldn't need a doubler
Click to expand...
Yeah that’s one of the advantages of the splitcase. I have the 4:1 in my ‘40 and with 4.10’s and 35’s it’s pretty nice. I don’t think I’d be disappointed with 37’s , but time may tell otherwise. I have it my mind that if I stay with 37’s I’m fine with straight Toyota drivetrain. Like Yotatoo said a few posts back- it would be the jump to 40’s that would be getting edgy. People do it and get by and I’m not the type to excessively spin tires, so I “think” I’d be fine. What stops me is the urge to overkill…
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Wonder if Nwf can make the eco crawler to split case?

I'm not super familiar with the split case gearing options. Do you want/need a doubler with it and a V8/auto?

Edit: 3.3 or 4.1 gears and 1.1 high

Probably wouldn't need a doubler
Click to expand...
I sent them an email, we’ll see what they say.

I am working through this now myself, swapping an 06 VVTI 2uz and A750 into my FJ40 and planning to run the split case. Toyota makes an input shaft for the split case that has a 23 spline female input (36211-60090), it’s from a 79 series that runs a split case behind a R series transmission. There’s a couple things to sort out with that approach:

The transfer case input bearing needs to be swapped for a sealed bearing. The stock bearing is oiled by the transmission since it’s on the transmission side of the input seal, but the tail housing of the A750 is dry. I’m pretty sure it’s a 6307N but I haven’t verified yet.

IMG_4589.jpeg


The transmission output seal needs to seal on the t-case input shaft. I bought the extended seal housing from AA that they use in their atlas adapter, still need to figure out the seal part number.

The female portion of the split case input shaft is the same length as the input shaft of the VF4. The input bearing has a snap ring that sits against the mating flange of the split case. I still need to figure out if it’s recessed into the flange and what orientation it sits in. There may not be enough length for the thickness of a plate adapter. I need to get the split case pulled out of my 40 so I can take some measurements.

IMG_4583.jpeg


The easy button here is to run the A750 and HF2 from a Land Cruiser 100/ LX470
 
Toyoland66 said:
I sent them an email, we’ll see what they say.

I am working through this now myself, swapping an 06 VVTI 2uz and A750 into my FJ40 and planning to run the split case. Toyota makes an input shaft for the split case that has a 23 spline female input (36211-60090), it’s from a 79 series that runs a split case behind a R series transmission. There’s a couple things to sort out with that approach:

The transfer case input bearing needs to be swapped for a sealed bearing. The stock bearing is oiled by the transmission since it’s on the transmission side of the input seal, but the tail housing of the A750 is dry. I’m pretty sure it’s a 6307N but I haven’t verified yet.

IMG_4589.jpeg


The transmission output seal needs to seal on the t-case input shaft. I bought the extended seal housing from AA that they use in their atlas adapter, still need to figure out the seal part number.

The female portion of the split case input shaft is the same length as the input shaft of the VF4. The input bearing has a snap ring that sits against the mating flange of the split case. I still need to figure out if it’s recessed into the flange and what orientation it sits in. There may not be enough length for the thickness of a plate adapter. I need to get the split case pulled out of my 40 so I can take some measurements.

IMG_4583.jpeg


The easy button here is to run the A750 and HF2 from a Land Cruiser 100/ LX470
Click to expand...
Wow!! That’s a ton of good information!!

I emailed NWFab yesterday. I didn’t have all the info that you did, mine was more of a generic question of can I adapt the splitcase to the A750. There answer was “sort of.” They pointed me to the same AA adapter and said I’d need a Blackbox in front of the splitcase. While I could get all that to fit on my 116 wheelbase, I don’t love stacking adapters on reduction boxes. Seems more prone to leaking. But if I can get past the cost (~$3000) for the adapter and reduction box, maybe. The RB would be nice and then I could stick with stock fj60 gears. This would save ~$1900. Maybe…

Could you fit a black box and adapter in a forty? Even stretched?
 
I think it can fit with a stretched wheelbase, probably not without.

The 2uz/ A750 is only a few inches longer than the 2F/ H42 measured from the fan clutch to the rear flange of the transmission. So depends on engine placement. I was planning to move the engine back so the front of bellhousing/ back of engine is close to the same spot so that will move things back several more inches. The other thing to contend with is I have a 79 with the gas tank below the tub so I’m hoping I don’t have to move it.

Assuming I can get a plate adapter to work I’m planning on 4:1 gears and no doubler
 
Toyoland66 said:
I think it can fit with a stretched wheelbase, probably not without.

The 2uz/ A750 is only a few inches longer than the 2F/ H42 measured from the fan clutch to the rear flange of the transmission. So depends on engine placement. I was planning to move the engine back so the front of bellhousing/ back of engine is close to the same spot so that will move things back several more inches. The other thing to contend with is I have a 79 with the gas tank below the tub so I’m hoping I don’t have to move it.

Assuming I can get a plate adapter to work I’m planning on 4:1 gears and no doubler
Click to expand...
Do you have a build thread? I’d like to follow along if you’re going through with this drivetrain.
 
archie40 said:
This is likely my train of thought as well. The question of the UZ remains the same- how does it stack against a stock LS. I’ve driven them on cars with stock tires, but never any big tires or offroad. As stated before- I’m not a throttle junky, but if I put the effort into swapping one then I want to know it’ll go down the highway easily and handle some low end grunt on the trail. It seems like there’s enough people who have swapped them in to various rigs and I was hoping to get their opinion. Maybe they are not as common as I thought.
Click to expand...

Here's my experience

My 01 suburban 1500 4wd had 5.3 and 4l60e and 265 ats. I bought it at 165k, tranny hadn't been serviced, and I had a good used goodwrench to swap in, so I left it alone, no service. It died at 186k, can't fault that.
At 211k it was drinking a gallon of water every hundred miles, but strong. Needed head gaskets, and a mess of other stuff. Got 15mpg.
I replaced it with a 212k mile 03 sequoia. I moved the tires over. It got 14mpg, and did not have the same power. The burb would hold 4th on a certain road mountain road, and need a gallon of water at the top. The toyota hunted, but now has 295k miles and is tight.
I bought a 2007 sequioa with the vvti and 5 speed. It walks away from the 03, and gets 16mpg. Very comparable to a 5.3/4l60e imo





Tldr
06 sequioa is pretty equal to 5.3 4l60e rig
 
Projectjunkie said:
Here's my experience

My 01 suburban 1500 4wd had 5.3 and 4l60e and 265 ats. I bought it at 165k, tranny hadn't been serviced, and I had a good used goodwrench to swap in, so I left it alone, no service. It died at 186k, can't fault that.
At 211k it was drinking a gallon of water every hundred miles, but strong. Needed head gaskets, and a mess of other stuff. Got 15mpg.
I replaced it with a 212k mile 03 sequoia. I moved the tires over. It got 14mpg, and did not have the same power. The burb would hold 4th on a certain road mountain road, and need a gallon of water at the top. The toyota hunted, but now has 295k miles and is tight.
I bought a 2007 sequioa with the vvti and 5 speed. It walks away from the 03, and gets 16mpg. Very comparable to a 5.3/4l60e imo





Tldr
06 sequioa is pretty equal to 5.3 4l60e rig
Click to expand...
That’s a pretty good equation for my personal choices. I have the 5.3 out of a 2001 suburban in the 40. It suits my needs bone stock, so the 2UZ would likely do fine as well. Also, thanks for the comparison on the vvti and non-vvti

Seems like I need to get to an agreeably price in the wrecked sequoia and figure out what I need out of it. Wife is not going to be pleased with another non-running vehicle, so this needs to be a quick salvage and scrap. Anybody have a list of worthy parts to pull out of the donor when using the 2UZ vvti and a750?
 
archie40 said:
That’s a pretty good equation for my personal choices. I have the 5.3 out of a 2001 suburban in the 40. It suits my needs bone stock, so the 2UZ would likely do fine as well. Also, thanks for the comparison on the vvti and non-vvti

Seems like I need to get to an agreeably price in the wrecked sequoia and figure out what I need out of it. Wife is not going to be pleased with another non-running vehicle, so this needs to be a quick salvage and scrap. Anybody have a list of worthy parts to pull out of the donor when using the 2UZ vvti and a750?
Click to expand...

As an owner of 2 sequioas, where are you located? :laughing:

If the front seats are leather, and in nice shape, they might be sought after

There isn't much demand for anything else, as they're pretty bulletproof

4wd or 2wd?

If the cats are original, they're worth pulling out to scrap separately
 
With an 06 VVTI engine you have two additional things to contend with. The SAIS and the leak detection evap system. You can either retain those systems or have them flashed out of the program. If you get the ecu flashed you can also get rid of the immobilizer, secondary O2 sensors, and VSS input. IMO that’s the way to go but if you don’t you’ll need to pull the charcoal canister out of the donor vehicle. You might also want the dash harness which is a bit of a pain to pull intact, the imobilizer ecu, ignition switch, key. There are some companies offering standalone harness conversions which negate the need for that harness since they add a client side plug with pedal, brake, AC inputs and speed, tach, etc outputs.

Otherwise make sure you pull the complete engine harness, DBW pedal, shifter.


archie40 said:
Do you have a build thread? I’d like to follow along if you’re going through with this drivetrain.
Click to expand...
Not yet, I’ll start one when I start stripping the 40 down, I’ve been working on cleaning up and prepping the engine and trans which isn’t very exciting. Donor vehicle is a 06 4Runner.
IMG_4603.jpeg


IMG_4617.jpeg


IMG_4642.jpeg
 
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I got the transmission/ t-case pulled out of my 40 and split so I could get some measurements. This is an H42 and split case from an 82 FJ60.

It’s hard to photo the comparison but the length of the spud shaft compared to the transmission output means the short spacer on the transmission side of the input gear gets eliminated.

IMG_4692.jpeg


Here’s the bad news. The input bearing doesn’t go in this configuration:
IMG_4687.jpeg


It gets recessed into the t-case flange which puts it flush with the flange. This means there’s no room for a plate adapter.
IMG_4689.jpeg

IMG_4694.jpeg


In order to run the split case behind a non Land Cruiser A750 using this spud shaft the extension housing would need to be modified.
 
The other thing I discovered is the splines on the spud shaft aren’t cut long enough to allow the input gear to slide all the way on. Looking at the parts diagrams the input gears for 62 and 70 series have a relief machined in that the 60 gears don’t:

60 series input gear:
IMG_0258.png


79 series input gear (the same series as the spud shaft comes from):
IMG_0255.png


The good news is that the 4:1 gears have this relief on the input gear, so does the aftermarket long spline input gears:
IMG_0259.png
 
Potential solutions:
-Fab/machine a new extension housing for the A750 that’s shorter, might be pretty complex

-Toyota makes an alternate spud shaft for this model that has male splines on the input:
IMG_0254.png


It gets run with this coupler, likely Toyota revised this part to get rid of the splined interface, I assume the two mated together are the same length as the spud shaft I already have.
IMG_0257.png


AA makes a 23 spline coupler, the question is whether it’s any longer than the Toyota part
IMG_0260.png
 
I went ahead and pulled the extension housing, I think that might be the way to go. Aside from it having the fill plug for the transmission it’s not that complicated.

IMG_4695.jpeg

It’s a simpler and symetrical bolt pattern compared to the t-case flange.
IMG_4697.jpeg


IMG_4698.jpeg

IMG_4702.jpeg


Room for the driveshaft
IMG_4700.jpeg
 

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Good thought, I’ll have to do some digging on that.

Having some extra room between the transmission and t-case opens up some options. AA makes several adapters for the split case and a lot of them use the same t-case side adapter plate:
www.advanceadapters.com

TOY L/C FJ60 PLATE LARGE HOLE

buy TOY L/C FJ60 PLATE LARGE HOLE online
www.advanceadapters.com www.advanceadapters.com

Plus this one to convert to 6 bolt round
www.advanceadapters.com

ADAPTER- T18 to TOYOTA L/C w/308 brg

buy ADAPTER- T18 to TOYOTA L/C w/308 brg online
www.advanceadapters.com www.advanceadapters.com

These are both used on the ax15, 6l80, and 6l90 adapters. Together they are 1.5” thick according to the cut sheet.

I can measure and draw up the transmission side flange in cad and have it cut. Send cut send is a game changer for that stuff, I had the t-case side flange (back of the extension housing) ready to go, just needed to add the two dowel holes:
IMG_0261.jpeg


From there it’s just figuring out how much thickness needs to be made up.
 
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I think I’m following, but I want to make sure. The rear of the transmission needs a custom plate (SCS) that will allow fluid to pass through it to the transmission. Next, an extension housing to bridge the distance set by the adapter shaft (Toyota) and it needs a fill plug. This will be welded to the a split case adapter (AA). Easy peasy??
 
Yeah but I think I can do it without welding and I will probably eliminate the fill plug. It can be filled through the oil cooler lines.

Per the photo above with the square the total adapter thickness is roughly 5.25”. The shoulder on the spud shaft equals front flange of transfer case - the input bearing sits flush with the flange and that shoulder seats against the input bearing.

I see two options from the AA catalog, both would start with this plate that gets bolted to the transfer case:
www.advanceadapters.com

TOY L/C FJ60 PLATE LARGE HOLE

buy TOY L/C FJ60 PLATE LARGE HOLE online
www.advanceadapters.com www.advanceadapters.com

Behind that option 1 is the t-18 to land cruiser adapter, per the cut sheet these two combine to 1.5” thick:
www.advanceadapters.com

ADAPTER- T18 to TOYOTA L/C w/308 brg

buy ADAPTER- T18 to TOYOTA L/C w/308 brg online
www.advanceadapters.com www.advanceadapters.com

Option 2 is the 4l80 adapter, per the cut sheet these two combine to 3.19” thick:
www.advanceadapters.com

ADAPTER- 4L80E TO TOYOTA 19 SPL

buy ADAPTER- 4L80E TO TOYOTA 19 SPL online
www.advanceadapters.com www.advanceadapters.com

I’m leaning towards the 4l80 adapter because there’s less thickness to make up, it has flanges to bolt through (so it can bolt to the transfer case plate and the transmission plate and the hardware isn’t trapped) and it has provisions for a crossmember mount. So basically I would need to make up 2” thickness.

I went ahead and measured and drew up the adapter plate for the transmission and I’m getting it test cut out of 1/8”. If everything fits I’ll get it cut out of 1/2” 6061 aluminum. This fits over the raised circle on the back of the transmission and has provisions for fluid to drain.
IMG_0262.jpeg


On top of that I’ll run a 3/4 plate with the same bolt holes and outside shape but the center will be the 6 bolt 4l80 pattern, the another 3/4 ring with just the 6 bolt pattern.

Does anyone know if the 4l80 pattern is the same 6.805” circle as the atlas? From photos the two appear to be different.
 
Before you get too crazy, figured out if an aw4 tail housing will bolt up. That would give you atlas pattern and you could probably easily adapt to that
 
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