Enduro/trail/hare scramble bikes

Squamch · May 2, 2022

I got an 01 yz250f last fall, and set it up for woods riding with lower gears, gummy tires, full wrap bark busters, and an auto decompression cam.

It's a great bike for what it is, but I'm spending an awful lot of time working on it. So, I'm casually shopping for a modern trail bike. 2 stroke, fuel injected, electric start, all that good stuff. But...I don't know where to do the research. Right now I'm finding a bike for sale, then googling the model and "common problems" or "issues."
I'm looking at less than 5 years old, generally looking at 250s or 300s, and mostly orange or white (husky). There is a sherco dealer in town, and the odd gas gas or beta around.

Thoughts, suggestions, bench racing opinions?

YotaAtieToo · May 2, 2022

I bought an 07 300 xc last year. I really wanted an E start bike but the first generation of ktm e start 2 strokes are garbage. So you're looking at 16?+ which, I guess you did say 5 years or newer :homer:

A brand new beta x trainer 300 was barely more than a 3-4 year old ktm.

Also, maybe my 300 needs some tuning, but I kinda miss my old RM250 snap over the lazy 300. Don't get me wrong, it's a tractor, but it doesn't scream anything like the 250 mx bike.

I'd also really look at the yz250x, new price isn't bad at all.

willis_racing · May 2, 2022

Well obviously you need a YZ250 you fawkin knucklehead :flipoff2:

'04 YZ250 Woods/Technical Hare Scramble Build

What's up Irate, This is the project I've got going that's going to be getting the most of my attention over the winter, so I figured I'd post up before I got too far ahead and lost motivation to take pictures and stuff. Current goal here is to catalog building out an older bike to be...

irate4x4.com

Love the engines on the new Betas, they run fucking awesome, and I like the chassis too. The suspension on either the rr or the race edition will probably suit your terrain really well too, they're hella squishy.

For the krautercycles, I've never heard anything but glowing reviews about the modern TPIs personally, just that they have slight tuning differences and an overall different feel than a carb. I like that snappy throttle response from the FI though, feels extra cool on a smoker. and the Estart will leaving you smiling ear to ear compared to your 250f. I'd say get an XC-W for your needs.

ETA: It doesn't sound like you were looking in the year range they came on but don't touch KTM/Huskies with 4CS forks with a 10 foot pole. Save yourself the trouble.

willis_racing · May 2, 2022

YotaAtieToo said:
I bought an 07 300 xc last year. I really wanted an E start bike but the first generation of ktm e start 2 strokes are garbage. So you're looking at 16?+ which, I guess you did say 5 years or newer

My dad's 07 300xc was a stunner of a bike. He loved it for many years. Don't need an e-start when it fires off first kick every single time.

YotaAtieToo said:
A brand new beta x trainer 300 was barely more than a 3-4 year old ktm.

Eeeeeh, they're also dorky short person bikes that are more of a hybrid of a trials bike and a regular dirt bike. Everyone I know that rides one is 50+ years old and has a vagina :flipoff2:

YotaAtieToo said:
Also, maybe my 300 needs some tuning, but I kinda miss my old RM250 snap over the lazy 300. Don't get me wrong, it's a tractor, but it doesn't scream anything like the 250 mx bike.

Sounds like it could use some tuning or some work. It should feel like a japanese 250 but with more off pipe grunt. A little more piston weight sure but it should never feel sluggish. Those years had like the multiple colors of power valve springs right? Maybe start there and see wha's in it.

YotaAtieToo said:
I'd also really look at the yz250x, new price isn't bad at all.

Other than the lack of a crawler 1st gear the 250x is far and away the best fun to dollar smoker on the market at the moment. Even then, I'm happy it doesn't have that shit. Squamch may disagree though :laughing:

Squamch · May 3, 2022

Crawler slow first gear is gonna be a necessity. Rode with a guy on a yz250x a few weeks ago and he was struggling in the trials-y stuff.

Buddy recommended a 300 for more low end grunt, coming from a 4 stroke world, but a lighter weight 250 does sound good. He also mentioned that most everyone he knew had cracked the composite subframe on their husky at some point.

Short people bikes are a no go, I'm 6'1", so not tall, but I'm not short.

Sceep · May 3, 2022

If you have a Sherco dealer in town, I'd say Sherco. Go see if you can test ride some. Everyone I know with one loves it.

willis_racing · May 3, 2022

Sceep said:
If you have a Sherco dealer in town, I'd say Sherco. Go see if you can test ride some. Everyone I know with one loves it.

I've been really interested in them lately. Not having local dealer support is kind of a bummer for us, I really want to give a 250 SE factory a rip.
I guess everything is all online now so we can still get parts and everything online through the dealers, and RMatv/mc carries Tusk parts and other stuff for them despite not carrying OEM parts. Other than the price they seem like a hell of a ticket.

Sceep · May 3, 2022

willis_racing said:
Not having local dealer support is kind of a bummer for us,

Call up Dee and David at D^2 trials and trails in Amarillo. They are the closest sherco dealer that I know of and they come out every month to the NMTA trials events. Good folks.

willis_racing · May 3, 2022

Squamch said:
Crawler slow first gear is gonna be a necessity. Rode with a guy on a yz250x a few weeks ago and he was struggling in the trials-y stuff.

Buddy recommended a 300 for more low end grunt, coming from a 4 stroke world, but a lighter weight 250 does sound good. He also mentioned that most everyone he knew had cracked the composite subframe on their husky at some point.

Short people bikes are a no go, I'm 6'1", so not tall, but I'm not short.

At least for the austrians, the 250 and the 300 are the same bike with a different piston and jug. Weight difference is pretty much negligible. I'd personally still go for the 250 but that's just my engine preferences, I like bikes that rev faster. From everything I've seen you say here I'd definitely say a 300 will do you well. Just an aside though, if all you can get your hands on is a euro 250, don't count it out, those bikes make plenty of grunt as well.

Sceep said:
Call up Dee and David at D^2 trials and trails in Amarillo. They are the closest sherco dealer that I know of and they come out every month to the NMTA trials events. Good folks.

Hell one of these days I'll just go spectate one of your guys' events and I can just start there. I found their dealership while searching a few months back, good to know I have an easy in to go talk to them personally.

Sceep · May 3, 2022

When you decide to come, I'd see if they'd bring you a bike to test ride. Sipapu or roswell would be good venues for a test ride on one. SanYo not so much.

CarterKraft · May 3, 2022

YotaAtieToo said:
Also, maybe my 300 needs some tuning, but I kinda miss my old RM250 snap over the lazy 300. Don't get me wrong, it's a tractor, but it doesn't scream anything like the 250 mx bike.

Start a thread, map switch? PV spring color? Main jet? pilot jet? pipe/silencer?

CarterKraft · May 3, 2022

Sceep said:
When you decide to come, I'd see if they'd bring you a bike to test ride. Sipapu or roswell would be good venues for a test ride on one. SanYo not so much.

Man I love Sipapu

Sceep · May 3, 2022

CarterKraft said:
Man I love Sipapu

We're supposed to be there next month (june 4-5) but I'm skeptical that the FS is going to let us keep our permit at this point. :(

willis_racing · May 3, 2022

Yeah those terrible motorcycles with spark arrestors start fires left and right! All the hikers with joints and cigarettes should always be allowed in though!

booger · May 3, 2022

I'd give the 300 XC-W a vote.

I'd also say CarterKraft said everything I would have YotaAtie. Make sure you are using the right Map, then turn up the Powervalve.

CarterKraft · May 3, 2022

I tune mine like a handicapped kid is going to ride it :lmao:

My bike is a little special, Slavens Mule ported cylinder 2mm overbored carb with torque divider plate.
"Not enough Snap" is something I have ever said.
I like it "fat" if you know what I mean.

willis_racing · May 4, 2022

CarterKraft said:
I tune mine like a handicapped kid is going to ride it
My bike is a little special, Slavens Mule ported cylinder 2mm overbored carb with torque divider plate.
"Not enough Snap" is something I have ever said.
I like it "fat" if you know what I mean.

That's crazy talk to me. I hate it when an engine lags behind my input. If I need my front tire up I need it up now lol.
I should get off my high horse and try a flywheel weight on the yz250 though just to see how it is and make a better judgement call on it. I don't think it'll be super useful for racing but maybe it'll be handy for some of the desert hard enduro I want to do with it.

CarterKraft · May 4, 2022

willis_racing said:
That's crazy talk to me. I hate it when an engine lags behind my input. If I need my front tire up I need it up now lol.
I should get off my high horse and try a flywheel weight on the yz250 though just to see how it is and make a better judgement call on it. I don't think it'll be super useful for racing but maybe it'll be handy for some of the desert hard enduro I want to do with it.

I probably didn't explain well...
Power delivery is NOW, no lag and revs out with no delay, but it is lazy compared to leaned up and "properly" tuned.

YotaAtieToo · May 5, 2022

Fwiw, my buddy just picked up a new gas gas 250 2st. Makes me want to go get a new beta so we can have pissing matches. :laughing:

I'll report what he thinks of it.

FlexyTJ · May 6, 2022

Totally dumbfuck uniformed question here. Are 2T/2 stroke bikes still available new in the US market? :homer:

Gots_a_sol · May 6, 2022

Yes, very popular in the Enduro/hare scramble world.

bdkw1 · May 6, 2022

CarterKraft said:
I probably didn't explain well...
Power delivery is NOW, no lag and revs out with no delay, but it is lazy compared to leaned up and "properly" tuned.

My 300 is very lean, still trying to get a better map in it but my local dealer won't touch it.

That being said, it is very smooth and deceptively quick. It never feels like it is trying to kill you like my KX500 did though.

YotaAtieToo · May 6, 2022

FlexyTJ said:
Totally dumbfuck uniformed question here. Are 2T/2 stroke bikes still available new in the US market?

Yes, right about when it looked like they were about to totally die, the 2 smoke euro bikes got super popular with trail/enduro type riding and racing. Now a days, probably 9/10 bikes you see on the trail are euro 2 strokes.

Yamaha also held out with the yz250 and recently came out with an x version, that's supposed to be trail oriented. I'm always curious why the japs are so slow to react to the market. Look at sxs's took them forever to come out with a pure sport SxS, and even then, they're half the hp and suspension of the big ones. It would be cool to see kawk and Honda bring back 2 smokers along with yamaha make a 300 to directly compete with the euro trash.

Squamch · May 7, 2022

FlexyTJ said:
Totally dumbfuck uniformed question here. Are 2T/2 stroke bikes still available new in the US market?

No idea, but they're everywhere on this Canadian island. I am the only one in my riding group with a jap bike. Also the only one with a kickstart that isn't a trials bike...and there's only 2 4t bikes, out of probably a dozen.

Squamch · May 7, 2022

As far as purchase, I've been pretty well sold on a 300 over a 250, for the lower end, I've always ridden 4 strokes, so a more gentle intro to the 2 stroke world sounds good. Gonna get the new tank on my yz, get the carb happy again, and sell it off, then find the best deal on either a te300i or an xcw300. The property my shop is on is going up for sale too, so I've got to part out my project toyota and the whole parts stash, so that will help fund the purchase as well.

YotaAtieToo · May 9, 2022

Squamch said:
As far as purchase, I've been pretty well sold on a 300 over a 250, for the lower end, I've always ridden 4 strokes, so a more gentle intro to the 2 stroke world sounds good. Gonna get the new tank on my yz, get the carb happy again, and sell it off, then find the best deal on either a te300i or an xcw300. The property my shop is on is going up for sale too, so I've got to part out my project toyota and the whole parts stash, so that will help fund the purchase as well.

You'll be dumbfounded by a 300 2 stroke. I was talking about it with my buddy on Sunday after hitting some loose hill climbs. They have so much low end, I actually up shift at the bottom of the climb and let it lug into the power band. At low speeds, it's like a tractor.

Mine is an xc, and that's my only complaint, I wanted an xcw.

willis_racing · May 10, 2022

FlexyTJ said:
Totally dumbfuck uniformed question here. Are 2T/2 stroke bikes still available new in the US market?

Figured I'd add:
Everywhere but Kalifornia :flipoff2:

CarterKraft · May 10, 2022

KTM pretty much single handedly saved the 2T.
Japan has done NOTHING to save them.

willis_racing · May 10, 2022

CarterKraft said:
Japan has done NOTHING to save them.

They had no reason to.

They've been making money hand over fist on 4 strokes for 2 entire decades now.

It's only been the last 5 years or so anybody even thought 2 strokes needed "saving", because now it's been 20 years and people are getting nostalgic about them.

It pretty much makes sense that KTM would dump R&D into the kind of racing they actually give a fuck about, given that Austria is home the world's most badass hard enduro event and probably doesn't have a supercross track in the entire country.

YotaAtieToo · May 10, 2022

willis_racing said:
Figured I'd add:
Everywhere but Kalifornia

They're still available, but they're trying to make them basically miserable to own. Red sticker bs.

willis_racing said:
They had no reason to.

They've been making money hand over fist on 4 strokes for 2 entire decades now.

It's only been the last 5 years or so anybody even thought 2 strokes needed "saving", because now it's been 20 years and people are getting nostalgic about them.

It pretty much makes sense that KTM would dump R&D into the kind of racing they actually give a fuck about, given that Austria is home the world's most badass hard enduro event and probably doesn't have a supercross track in the entire country.

Doesn't mean they aren't missing out on sales because of it. I can speak for every part of the country, but almost every bike I see out in the wild or in a truck is a euro bike or older jap bike.

Obviously yamaha has seen the sales potential and at least made an attempt with the YZ250X. Although it's not all that comparable to the Europeans are offering.

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