TIG welding cages

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    TIG welding cages

    For people who actually know how to TIG weld.

    Depending on who you ask, and what kind of builds they are used to everyone has an opinion on how cages should be TIG'd. Some argue that 2 passes is a must, some say it's dumb.

    pictures are from my cage on my old jeep/buggy. One pass on .120 DOM. (not a professional welder)

    *trend I've noticed is that MIG welders always seem to think these are underfilled

    For arguments sake, we will use .120 wall as a base line for discussion.






    #2
    from the pictures, those welds are just fine. they are underfilled if you can see undercut on either side, so add more if that happens, or if you have a depression in the middle of your weld, in that case add more.

    especially 0.120, a single pass is plenty


    2 passes is a must is dumb

    gotta be all straw is also dumb

    pile it up like a mig is dumb

    gotta have a weave cover pass is dumb


    UNLESS you are making money selling pictures on instagram, if you are doing that, then do whatever sells you the most product


    Up is difficult, down is dangerous

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      #3
      ^ What he said.

      You are good.
      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      Redneck-at-Large

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        #4
        Top one looks a little undercut but the bottom one looks fine.
        Rock Krawler sucks!

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          #5
          when it comes to cages what i see is;

          most mig is too cold and most tig is too hot. and picture dont tell the full story.



          bottom line is... its not the process or the procedure, its the welder.


          if anybody is insistant on one over the other, or two pass vs 1 pass... they are fucking retarded amateurs.



          **also, i'm a self employed welder/ fab person. i've never tigged a cage in a personal rig, only customers.
          ***also,also. chromo is a different story, and i dont fuck with it. if dom is good enough for nascar, its good enough for anyone that wants work done at my shop.

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            #6
            I personally think it's very common to see TIG welds in the automotive industry that are concave and seriously underfilled. The way I look at it, If I cut a cross section view of any two parts I weld, I want to see the wall thickness of the filled area to never dip thinner than the wall thickness of the thinnest part being welded no matter what process is used. Far too often do I see people proud of "small" tig welds with two peices of .120 wall tube being connected by .065" of filler depth. Saying "the weld material is stronger than the base material" is no excuse there imo.

            So as long as you feel like your

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              #7
              Originally posted by AgitatedPancake View Post
              I personally think it's very common to see TIG welds in the automotive industry that are concave and seriously underfilled. The way I look at it, If I cut a cross section view of any two parts I weld, I want to see the wall thickness of the filled area to never dip thinner than the wall thickness of the thinnest part being welded no matter what process is used. Far too often do I see people proud of "small" tig welds with two peices of .120 wall tube being connected by .065" of filler depth. Saying "the weld material is stronger than the base material" is no excuse there imo.

              So as long as you feel like your
              agree. fully.

              i'll even throw another example, because pictures and more stuff to critique

              Not a roll cage, same concept though. this weld as a single pass was nowhere near what i wanted

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              so rather than try to make one wide weld, laid down that width all the way around and then made a second pass. close enough that it was easy to weave and cover

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              Attached Files


              Up is difficult, down is dangerous

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                #8
                Single pass is fine for .120 wall if done right. That steering cylinder is much thicker and can benefit from double pass.

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                  #9
                  I’ve heard single pass below.120 and double pass over .120
                  So .120 is teeter tottering. If the fit up is tight enough use a single. If it’s loose then fill the gap, let it cool a little and do a cover. This is better than under filled or over cooked trying to melt all the filler rod across a wide gap.

                  Rod size plays a big part in how much filler you can put down and how hot it needs to be to get it to flow.

                  A big plus for TIG is 100% penetration without having to run too hot or add too much filler.

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                    #10
                    Weld some up and cut and etch. It is a eye opener

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                      #11

                      Originally posted by Provience View Post

                      agree. fully.

                      i'll even throw another example, because pictures and more stuff to critique

                      Not a roll cage, same concept though. this weld as a single pass was nowhere near what i wanted

                      Click image for larger version
Name:	IMG_3172.JPG
Views:	790
Size:	335.6 KB
ID:	301345


                      so rather than try to make one wide weld, laid down that width all the way around and then made a second pass. close enough that it was easy to weave and cover

                      Click image for larger version
Name:	IMG_3195.JPG
Views:	789
Size:	373.2 KB
ID:	301346
                      that cylinder is definitely different than what a cage. I would do two passes as well like i did for my control arms


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                        #12
                        Originally posted by HYDRODYNAMIC View Post
                        I’ve heard single pass below.120 and double pass over .120
                        So .120 is teeter tottering. If the fit up is tight enough use a single. If it’s loose then fill the gap, let it cool a little and do a cover. This is better than under filled or over cooked trying to melt all the filler rod across a wide gap.

                        Rod size plays a big part in how much filler you can put down and how hot it needs to be to get it to flow.

                        A big plus for TIG is 100% penetration without having to run too hot or add too much filler.
                        Rule of Thumb: 1amp gets 1thou of thickness

                        120 amp = 0.120" full penetration weld

                        3/16"=190 amp

                        and i think that is where the over/under 0.120 you've heard of comes from. 115v machine or using 115v is not ever going to get you 190 amp and i'd wager that MOST people welding in their garage are using ~200amp machines at max (yes, i know several people have bigger rigs, but they aren't the majority by any means).

                        .120 to .120 wall tube all day long, single pass with a good fitup.

                        .188 to .120 wall tube, i try to keep my heat mostly on the thicker tube and go a bit slower to help it out. depending on how it felt or looked while welding regarding throat and undercut and such would determine what happens next

                        just about everything else gets a gap and that pretty well always means multiple passes.


                        Up is difficult, down is dangerous

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                          #13
                          Welds look fine. Coming from a guy that is certified in multiple disciplines on everything from structural to aircraft. If you're worried about the joint, or as said before, underfilled, add more filler with another pass. If you're still worried about joint reinforcement, add a gusset. I personally would have back beveled your heim on the steering cylinder a bit, then filled it shoulder to shoulder on the weld. but I don't know how much abuse your rig will see. I've seen crappy welds hold, and good welds fail based on abuse alone.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by 1Sinner View Post
                            Welds look fine. Coming from a guy that is certified in multiple disciplines on everything from structural to aircraft. If you're worried about the joint, or as said before, underfilled, add more filler with another pass. If you're still worried about joint reinforcement, add a gusset. I personally would have back beveled your heim on the steering cylinder a bit, then filled it shoulder to shoulder on the weld. but I don't know how much abuse your rig will see. I've seen crappy welds hold, and good welds fail based on abuse alone.
                            for my cylinder, being mounted with a ball joint at both ends and have a tie rod and two cylinders should mean that it gets exposed to very little "pulling" force even if the tire is getting slammed around, so I'm not particularly concerned about it.

                            as for cages, absolutely use bracing, gussets and design to deal with high stress areas rather than rely on welds.


                            Up is difficult, down is dangerous

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                              #15
                              Overall strength is going to be determined by effective throat of the weld, assuming no weld defects. Basically, you want to match your filler metal strength to the base material strength, and then match your effective throat thickness to your material thickness. So the question of single vs dual pass should really be asked like this: Can I make an acceptable weld with a .120" throat thickness in a single pass, or will it take me 2 passes?

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                              If you measure the leg length of the inside corner of the 90 degree joint, divide it by the square root of 2 (roughly 1.5) and that will give you the theoretical throat thickness. Effective throat then depends on convexity/concavity, penetration, etc.

                              This is oversimplified, but you can roughly calculate the strength of that weld pretty easily. Multiply the effective throat thickness by the length of the weld (circumference of the tube would work, but actual length following the notch will be a little longer), then multiply that by the filler rod strength.

                              ​​​​​​So a 2" x .120 dom tube, grade 1010 has about a 70,000 psi tensile strength and would be evenly matched to a .120" throat fillet weld using er70 filler, also 70,000 psi tensile. This would give you a weld strength of over 52,000 pounds tensile, which matches the tube. If you don't achieve that .120 throat thickness, do you really want your weld to be weaker than the tube? Also, if you have a higher grade of steel, you will need to adjust your weld size or filler to compensate.

                              I personally prefer 2 passes. If you crank up the heat and dump more filler in, then you might be fine with just 1. But I'm going for a specific look.
                              Last edited by Im4yotas; 2 weeks ago.

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